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| Red Sox Relievers Puzzled About Wagner Claim | 08.22.09 at 5:34 pm ET |
The middle of August is far different than the days leading up to the July 31 deadline for trades not requiring waivers. At the end of last month, Red Sox players could not help but hear about potential deals that their club was contemplating. Three weeks later, that is not the case.
And so, prior to Saturday’s game, a few members of the bullpen expressed surprise to learn that the Red Sox had claimed Mets reliever Billy Wagner on waivers.
In itself, of course, the waiver claim doesn’t necessarily mean anything. By Tuesday at 1 p.m., the Mets can decide whether to grant the claim and relinquish Wagner to the Sox, whether they might work out a trade for Wagner with the Sox, or whether they will pull the left-hander back off of waivers and keep him. Even so, Sox relievers seemed a bit confused by the possibility that Wagner might join them.
“What has he done?” wondered Jonathan Papelbon. “Has he pitched this year?”
Indeed, on Thursday, Wagner made his first appearance since undergoing Tommy John surgery last September. The former Mets closer looked great, topping out at 96 mph while striking out two of the three batters he faced in a perfect inning.
Wagner’s resume, of course, is that of one of the best closers ever. He has 385 career saves, a 2.40 ERA, and has struck out 11.7 batters per nine innings in his career. Even so, what he might be able to deliver going forward remains something of an open question given the fact that he is returning from a surgery that often requires some months before consistency returns.
“Is he ready to pitch or is he not? You know what I mean?” asked Papelbon. “I think our bullpen is good where we’re at right now. Don’t get me wrong. But I guess you could always make it better. It’s kind of like the Gagne thing, I guess.”
Ah, the Gagne thing. In 2007, the Sox had the best bullpen ERA in the majors thanks to the dominant work of Jonathan Papelbon, Hideki Okajima and Manny Delcarmen (among others). But the Sox worried about the toll of the season on Okajima especially (the Japanese lefty, in his rookie year, had to be shut down for a stretch due to fatigue), and so the Sox traded for Eric Gagne at the July 31 deadline.
At the time, in his return from Tommy John surgery in 2005, he was 2-0 with a 2.16 ERA and 16 saves. Gagne came with tremendous credentials, a former Cy Young winner who converted a record 84 straight save opportunities earlier in his career with Los Angeles. Yet stripped of the title of Rangers closer and made a set-up man for Papelbon in Boston, he fell on his face. Gagne had a 6.75 ERA in 20 appearances for the Sox, and was never effective.
His arrival was unsettling for Gagne and, to a degree, the rest of the Sox bullpen in ‘07. Some of the members of the bullpen seemed leery that a move for Wagner might have a similar effect now, on a bullpen that ranks third in the A.L. with a 3.67 ERA. While an additional arm could well benefit the club, especially by redistributing the late-innings workload in a fashion that would keep everyone fresher for the stretch. Even so, the members of the Boston bullpen have seen before that theory and practice are not always aligned.
“We loved Gagne coming over here, just the stuff that he had, but it was an awkward situation this late in the season,” said Delcarmen. “I think our bullpen is fine right now.
“It is what it is. If (Wagner) comes and helps us win, that’s what we want. But sometimes, shaking things up this late might work out different. We’ll see what happens.”
24 Comments for “Red Sox Relievers Puzzled About Wagner Claim”
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August 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Will someone tell Papelbon to SHUTUP!
Thanks for the input Tweedle Dumb and Manny DelPotential, but we need to get better and I encourage the front office to acquire Wagner if they can.
August 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 pm
As weak as Paps has been this season, it’s not surprising about how defensive he seems about this move. This is a no brain winner for the Sox; it requires little financial output and high reward potential.
Go get him Theo !
August 22nd, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Of course Paps is vervous and questioning this move. Of the young stars of his class, Youk, Pedey, Laster, he is the one who is still unsigned long term. Now he would have Wagner, of the HOF cred, and Bard of the 100+ heat. This could signify to Paps that this is his last full year in Boston,
Picture this: Next trade deadline you have Wagner pitching well as a setup man. Bard handling the bridge with others and pitching well. Paps has 26 saves a couple blown, and generally looks the way he has this year.
The return on the market for Paps would be very high, espiecially to a NL team. Slide forward Wagner to the Closer, and Bard to setup. Groom Bard for the rest of that year knowing they can re-up Wagner for a year or two, and bring Bard into the role easily.
This is a scenario I could envision easily. Paps has much more leverage to sign long term on the off season without Wagner here.
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 pm
Sorry for any typos, just wrote and sent. Kill my spelling and grammer at will.
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:02 pm
papelbon does need to shut up. wagner is one of the best closers we’ve seen. if we can get him cheap and he’s half as good as he has been, he could be a great piece down the stretch.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:54 am
I think Wagner can definitely still be effective. He is definitely NOT a replacement for Pap, though, CaballitoBlanco. While Papelbon has not been dominating this year, a 38 year old closer is not the answer. Keep Papelbon until Bard proves himself ready. People have anointed Bard much too quickly. 4 HRs given up in his last 7 appearances.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 am
After seeing SO many hard hit balls off of pap, walks, etc. I am not comfy with him closing whatsoever…
It feels like im watching a guy with a a grunting mouth trying to scare the opponents and its no longer working .. the opposition has for the most part figured that out. His fast ball is just to damn straight !!
I am more comfy with Saito to be honest..But what the heck.. lets see what Wagner brings !!
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 am
Look if there is a move to a guy like “WagneJonathan needs to r” might be just what help pick up his game….You know what I mean Paps!!
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:23 am
Paps is great, no doubt, thing is though, he can struggle at times, getting men on base instead of the simple cutter that Mariano has and gets all those K K K K K K K K K K K K over and over. Wish Paps could settle down and get something going like that.
At the same time, haven’t we had enough of these expirements of older dudes that could hurt us?
At the same token, releasing Smoltz was a bad move, I think in time he could have come around.
The real key too is that the Boston FO allowed NYY to get three top tier SP as well as Mark T (will take Vic though, he’s really that good).
Time will tell. Hopefully it works out awesome.
Now it will never happen but would love to see Paps back in the SP role.
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:32 am
I agee.. Smotz was given up to soon ! He probably will end up having a huge impact on his team..
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:52 am
i agree Pap needs to keep his mouth shut and worry about going out and getting saves. He has struggled alot this year more then past years. When i first saw Wagner on waivers I told my father the sox should go after him. I think he would only help out an all ready great pull pen and at the end of the season you can never have to meany pitchers.
I’m glade they let smoltz go he was not doing anything for us and hurting us more then anything. I like smoltz dont get me wrong but I think he has the ” bret Farve sindrom” he stayed in the game to long and should hang up his cleats. all in all go get wagner and see what he can do its not gona hurt anything worse comes to worse you drop him.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:39 am
If our bullpen would pitch like they did in 04, and 07 then maybe we wouldn’t have to go and get another closer/set up man to help out. Besides everyone get’s hurt, and Wagner can still bring it. Better us than the Jankees.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:12 am
Papelbon is so over rated. I cringe every time I see him warming up. To top it off his attitude is actually worse than Youk. Shut up and play ball. He’s one of the reasons I’ve stopped watching the Red Sox.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:20 am
Listen,Paps , you might not be dancing the irish Jig with out him
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:28 am
This is a strategic move by Theo, not a tactical one. First, it keeps him away from the Yankees, who’s bullpen is still not very deep. Second, it provides some additional bullpen depth, especially left-handed; both for this year and next. They could pick up the 8 million option next year, if they desire, and have a strong setup guy next year as well. Saito won’t be back and I think the Sox will make runs at Halladay, King Felix and Adrian Gonzales in the off season. DelCarmen would likely go if they swing one of those trades. Finally, whether he goes to FA this year or bext, they would get one, possibly two picks, depending when he goes and how well he pitches.
August 23rd, 2009 at 11:17 am
Papelbon is fast becoming my least favorite member of the team. He needs to shut his mouth and pitch. What is not to like about a lefty that can hit 95? I will be happy when Papelbon is pitching for another organization because he wanted top $.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Saux already have an awesome bullpen. If they get Wagner, I think it could make the difference in winning the division and eventually the WS. I also like their current rotation better than the Yanks. In my book, Beckett beats ZZ slightly, Lester beats Brunette and with Wakefield (11-3) coming back, Bucholtz having pitched 3 quality starts in a row and this rookie Tazawa doing well, overall gotta give it to the Saux. I like the Yankees lineup better, but in the post season pitching dominates…
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Paps needs to know he is not invinceable, irreplacable, all he is pitching for is the $$$$$$ he said so himself. trade him in the off season to a National league team. Get Wagner.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Every time Papelbon and Delcarmen come into a game you have to give the other team the edge. They are over rated and scare me to death. Some time real soon young Mr. Bard will take over.
August 23rd, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Why the heck would Delcarmen even have a opinion on this deal. He’s just going along with Papelbon. Manny needs to shut it as well because his numbers aren’t great at all.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
I think it is fairly obvious that Paps is feeling the heat. He wants to make certain that he remains the prettiest girl at the party but recently has looked more like Mitch Williams than Mariano Rivera. My take on it is this: Oki could use the rest, Paps could use the motivation, and it ain’t my money. So go get him.
August 24th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Although I am all for improvement where you dont give up too much, I am a little sketchy about nabbing former closers. Saito surprised me by being as effective as he has been this year. Remember when we sent Murphy and Gabbard to Texas for Gagne’ in ‘07? HE SUCKED, mainly because he had it in his mind that he was a closer. Wagner JUST returned from Tommy John surgery a couple weeks ago. This last weekend, he couldn’t even get loosened up in the bullpen. One great inning doesn’t mean that he can come into a heated division & wild card race and be effective. Mets fans ain’t Sawx fans, right? One bad outing and everyone will be ALL OVER Theo for making this acquisition, guaranteed.
Plus, Papelbon’s numbers: 1-1 record, 29/32 saves, 56 k’s, 23 BB (2 HB), 12 ER allowed (2.08 ERA). And all of this while just being who he is. I don’t remember anyone complaining of his antics in ‘07? Just think about it
August 24th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
And for those that want Boston to pickup Wagner’s 2010 option…he wants it waived before approving the trade. All he wants is close next season and it ain’t gonna happen in Queens. He wants to do an audition for MLB teams and the Red Sox are not the right spot for that. He won’t show his closing guile while Papelbon is healthy. He may also not be totally healthly still, since he hasn’t thrown since Thursday.
August 24th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
I agree that they MAY need another arm. That being said, do you think the front office is tiring of Paps mouth?? Seems like when there is a topic either semi-controversial or controversial “insert foot in mouth”. I love his success especially in the postseason, but come on dude! Keep your mouth shut, unless someone asks you a baseball question, don’t open your piehole. Delcarmen has no leg to stand on, he’s been good to average at best. He really shouldn’t talk. I am all for Theo and the boys to add another experienced major league arm.