Exactly why you DONT trade both Buchholz and Kelly..In a couple years Beckett and halladay could be done and we dont have the pieces to plug in..I say either one or the other Kelly/Buchholz,Then start talking Piemintel, Dubront,etc..If it was for hernandez,then I can see it..You get 8 years from felix and Doc will prob only give you 2 or 3 good years..better return on Hernandez..

If they want both Kelly and Buchholz I’d be asking for Lind to be tossed in the deal. Not sure you give up cost-controlled (Value) years of Bucholz without extending Halladay. Also, if they do extend Halladay do you have enough reserve cash to resign Beckett too?

Buchholz & Bard, bot not Kelly, too. Can not afford to gut the farm system
of its top pitcher while trading Buchholz. Also, certainly Reddick or Kalish, but not Westmoreland. That’s a good offer for a pitcher a year away from leaving Toronto.

I wouldn’t add Kelly unless they sign Aroldis Chapman. I’m also not sure that pitching is exactly where they need to spend their prospects on, I really think we need a bat, and not to replace Mike Lowell’s bat which is still quite good, they need to replace David Ortiz.
Remember, Dice K was what really killed them last year. You have to believe they wont allow him to repeat what he did. Think of him as your rotation addition.

Very simple. Either they get Buckholz and Kelly or the yankees get him. Give them up.

I’m pretty sure the reports out there have not stated that Halladay is open to an extention with the Red Sox, but that he’d just be willing to waive his no trade clause to go to Boston. Maybe Rob’s heard about Boston being an exception to his stated goal to hit free agency.

Come on Saux. Give up them prospects !!

Lackey or Halladay

I see a big push for the Yankees and Red Sox to go after Halladay. I don’t get it. Why would a team want to give up player like Buckholz or Chamberlain plus another big prospect and STILL pay Halladay a ton of money? If you don’t pay him a ton of money then you are giving up those players for one year instead of many years.

Now if you sign Lackey you get a top of the rotation pitcher and he will cost you a lot of money. However you keep your depth and future intact. To me Halladay is a better health bet but Lackey is a proven world series winner. Lackey is one year younger. I think they would command similar contracts.

In my opinion the winner gets Lackey and the loser get Halladay. Of course both teams have the capability to get both. Then you will hear the other teams scream.

It won’t happend. Theo refuse to pat the price for Texeira and there was ZERO prospects involved. Halladay is definitely an ace and the Sox can use him but i don’t see Theo and co get ride of both Buchholz and Kelly even if they think that the Yankees can land him. One thing for sure: if Halladay ends up in NY, you can kiss goodbye to the world series for a very, very long time. Sabathia,Burnett and Halladay as their threesome…

Halladay has stated that he wants to go where he has a chance to win. AA and Beeston have both stated that they are willing to allow a window to negotiate an extension. Halladay has said repeatedly that he did not want to be a rental pitcher.

Honestly , I am jays fan, have been all my life. If I were a redsox fan, you guys should be doing WHATEVER it takes to get Halladay. He is the best pitcher I have ever seen. Do you even realize that the only reason this guy hasnt won 3-4 Cy young awards is because he was a JAY playing against your SOX and the YANKS, several times each year. You put Halladay in the NL, you will see 25 wins, and a sub 2 era. With the offence your team has, this guy will lead you to the promise land. He is a Yankee Killer. (except matsui)
Dont worry at the cost, just ENJOY the Good Doctor. There are no prospects you can give the JAYS that will make up for losing am man of his talents and Class. MAke the trade and get DOC a ring ok?

its not like Clay bucholz, kelly are going to give you nightmares for years to come.. HAlladay in a NY uniform will . so please get it done.

Here here Jays Fan! I’ve been a Jays fan since their first pitch and have not seen a pitcher with more class than Roy. The Red Sox need to make this trade happen so we don’t see the good doctor in pinstripes!

I’m a NYY fan. Halladay is the best pitcher in MLB and has been for years. Whoever gets Doc – if it is NYY or BOS – will be very scary and a WS favorite. You give up your 2 best prospects easily for someone like this.

Ruttiger,

What kills me is the whining all the Sox and LA fans are doing about giving up prospects… JEEZE man I would keep Halladay on my team before I would take any of the packages being offered.

I would rather KEEP THE GUY!! but hes wants to go, and man you cant argue with DOC he gave us a long time to get him to the playoffs. (thanks a lot JP)

The sad part is we wont see another DOC like pitcher in our entire life as jays fans. I will take the lesser of to evils and watching him win as a redsox… just not the bronx.

As a lifelong Jays fan, I will cheer for the Sox every fifth game if Halladay goes over there. He deserves a World Series, and if the Sox are the best chance, then I hope both AA and TE do whatever it takes to make it happen. Hell, I’d fly down, buy a Doc Sox jersey and tix to the game just to see him pitch in a playoff game.

with Paps attitude Bard’s name is off the table

I agree… i don’t think that they should trade bard, give up bucholz but not bard

I like what jays fan said.

I woul hate to see him win in the bronx

Add Halladay to Beckett,Lester,Matsuzaka and this team would be WS favorites.

AB Says:

November 25th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
As a lifelong Jays fan, I will cheer for the Sox every fifth game if Halladay goes over there. He deserves a World Series, and if the Sox are the best chance

Actually the Yankees give Doc the best chance to win a ring. They have a way better offense than the Sox

I worry about who is going to hit close to 40 homeruns and 125 ribbies without Jason Bay. If we dont pick up at least one BIG BAT and Halladay or
Hernandez it will be a Long Hot Summer looking up at the Yankees.Theo make it happen.

want vernon wells too?

trade him for a pair of tickets to watch DOC pitch in the post season?

Why would you want to give up two future pitching stars in Buchholtz and Bard? Consider one or the other and a position player and sign Doc longterm.

Hate to break it to you but bucholtz aint a STAR and most mlb scouts would agree, he will be a good middle of the rotation starter.

#2 at best. Bard has a better opportunity to be a legit MLB closer, and be an impact type player.

you also need to remember if you want DOC you have to OVERPAY, because you are in the division… and we dont want to have doc beat us for the next 3 yrs over and over again. AA aint just going to give him to you when there are better offers on the table.

LA – Kershaw or Billingsly – plus there top 2 prospects
LAA – Weaver/santana/saunders – Aybar- and a top prospect.
NYY- Joba – Phil hughes- prospect
Phi- Happ- Drabeck, and 2 others

Pony up bud.. this is what your up against. face it.. u want doc.. bye Clay, Bard, and Kelly.

The Yankees are planning to offer Chamberlain or Hughes (1), Austin Jackson or Jesus Montero (1) and take Vernon Wells and 50% of his salary. An awful lot to give up. They are also making the same pitch for Josh Johnson of the Marlins.

What about Adrian Gonzalez? The Red Sox can pick up Lackey and have a Beckett/Lackey/Lester/Dice-K/Wakefield-Buccholz rotation!?! That is better than the Yankees!

They are interested in everybody, Justin Duschscherer, Harden, Haren, Sheets, Halladay, Holliday, Bay, Adrian Gonzalez, Adrian Beltre, blah, blah, blah, so are the Yankees, way too early to get worked up over anybody!

Theo would be crazy to trade for Halladay, He needs prospects to get Adrian Gonzalez from San Diego
Halladay is getting to old, we have all seen what happens when age takes a little off the fastball (Pedro/Schilling)Bucholtz will be better in 2010 and real good in the second half of 2010 because he’s young and has STUFF.
Sign Lackey if you want protection for Beckett leaving but i don’t think you need him if you don’t include Bucholtz in a Gonzalez deal.
The Sox will get Bay for close to the 15Mil they have already offered unless they decide to blow it up and develop talent in 2010 and enter the FA market in 2011 when there’s talent available. They could bring the Cuban SS up and let him grow in Boston playing next to Pedroia. Seeing how Petey and Youk approach the game would help him., I’d like to see it!
Blow it up Theo, we can take a year off to watch the youngsters grow.

Do what it takes to get… Halladay, Hernandez, Adrian Gonzalas or Sir Albert, Joe Mauer, bring Hanley back, and don’t worry about the future!!

I don’t know what you guys on here are talking about. I don’t think we should go get Doc or Lackey. They old, Doc might have 4 years, 2 at high level. He will demand 80 million. Lackey’s crazy self is gonna try for 100 million. LOL. The jays lost their mind with this Doc is GOD complex. Felix or Greinke would work for me, not mid 30′s pitchers. They go to the national league. I would give up Bard, Kalish, and maybe Lowrie, they need a SS. Use Buchholz and Kelly for Miggy or Adrian Gonzalez. GO SOX!

I’d give up Buchholtz and a relief guy like Delcarmen (and maybe another prospect, but not a great one), but I’d be reluctant to give up Bard and very, very reluctant to give up Kelly with Buch gone. I really just don’t think one year of Halladay is worth it. I don’t even think it’s worth it for one year of Halladay + gigantic contract extension, especially knowing Beckett’s either going to be gone or done in a few years.

I also find the amount of pitches he’s thrown very troubling, no matter how efficient he is. That’s just a lot of pitchers and he’s been hurt before.

1. Lackey is not comparable to Halladay, don’t make me laugh
2. Halladay cares about winning, not money. Gave the Jays a discount on his last extension and probably willing to do the same for whomever gets him.
3. Halladay is an efficient CONTROL pitcher with excellent conditioning, not likely to tail off as drastically as Pedro.
4. Be realistic, Jays Fan. No way in hell LA parts with Kershaw – he’s got Lincecum potential. Philly is similarly not giving up Drabeck AND Happ.
5. Sox should pull the trigger since Halladay is a stone-cold Yankee killer. Lifetime record of 18-6, 2.84 ERA against NY, the best hitting team in all of MLB during the past 10 years.

Every pitcher gets hurt at some point these days. Halladay had shoulder problems ONCE, over 5 years ago. The shin injury was an absolute fluke line-drive and has never bothered him since. This guy will pitch at a Cy Young level for at least 4 more years and still be an effective pitcher after that.

The Sox should not trade for Halladay – I would trade for King Felix and make the offer as follows – Lars Anderson, Casey Kelly and Michael Bowden.

They should sign Orlando Cabrera or start Lowrie at SS. Sign Figgins to play left field and go get Pujols as a FA following the 2010 season ($25 million +) and move Youkilis back to 3B. They sign four guys following this year: Dunn/Crawford – Pujols – Papelbon – VMart and sign two guys prior to this year: Beckett and Figgins and King Felix after the 2011 season.

c – Martinez
1b – Pujols (for 2011)
2b – Pedroia
ss – Lowrie
3b – Youkilis (for 2011)
lf – Figgins
cf – Ellsbury
rf – sign Dunn or Crawford as a FA in 2011
dh – Hermida

sp – Beckett-Felix-Lester-Dice K-Buchholz
rp-Papelbon-Bard-Okijima-Wagner (yes, resign him)-Delcarmen-Ramirez

Lars Anderson, Casey Kelly, and Michael Bowden? Are you serious? You actually think that is enough to get Felix? Thats not even enough to get Ervin Santana, let along King felix.
And why in the world would you have Dunn playing RF in the lineup? He is a horrible defensive player. He would be a DH.

I would not trade Bucholtz for Halladay even up. Buck was the sox best pitcher down the stretch. why trade 15 years of pitching for 4 ? Only one reason Sox Fear the evil Empire. Don’t let them scare you into a big mistake. Keep The Kid he could be the next Doctor. If you are going to Gut the farm go for hernandes or Lackey

Matt – That is more than a fair offer for King Felix in terms of a starting offer. Anderson is going to be a starting 1B in the league and Kelly and Bowden are going to be future #2-#3 starters in the league. As for Dunn, fine – have Hermida in RF (he is a solid corner outfielder defensively) and put Dunn at the DH.

Also, Anderson and Kelly and Bowden are 3 of the top 10 prospects that the Sox have. Would you rather put Buchholz in the deal instead of Kelly? Either way works for me.

As far as Ervin Santana is concerned – he is not trade bait for the Angels considering the year that he had last year.

If the Sox really wanted to wait – then they can go get 2 of the starting pitchers that are going to be free agents following next year. Cain would be a nice option and he won’t cost anything other than a draft pick.

I stoped testing marijuana in 1975. Though after reading some of these posts maybe I should start testing that herb again. Seriously Blue Jays fan do you think there is a GM who doesn’t know that Halladay won’t re-sign with the Jays? The Jays have a nice piece but they are not going to get 1.25 on the 1.00…He’s a FA after this year,so if the big clubs want to wait they can,and then the Jays get nothing!!! They might be able to get the Phillies to offer Happ and Donald and some 3rd rate prosect,or the Yankees might give them Hughes or Joba and Montero but after that its a low A prosepect, as for the Sox they might give the Jays Buchholz and Reddick but anything else and the Jays have over rated their piece…The Jays have no leverage.

The sox’s first priority should be a bat, not pitching. Their Rotation is great behind Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, and Wake. Even if they get Halladay, chances are they lose focus on Jason Bay, lose him to another team and then what? Hope that Ortiz can rebound and Lowell can drink the fountain of youth. The only decent power threats in Boston’s lineup right now are V-Mart and Youk, but the Sox don’t have a standout power hitter. That won’t get it done, especially when you have guys like Lowell and Ortiz still in your line-up.

well…id say the sox are screwed for years to come after 2011 if they get “DOC”. He’s a short term solution to stick it to the yankees. If we want to be in this sweepstake for the next 7-8 years, they will sign Lackey/Bay and trade for adrian gonzalaez. Beckett, Lester, and Lackey? Whoe the yankees third rotation guy? Pettite? haaaaaaa hes done, his last year is 2010. the Sox’s average age for their rotation will be 27 years old with no Wakefield in the rotation…27!!!!!!!!!!!! and it will be the best in the game. that means 7 more years of success if they can keep these guy. With Adrian Gonzalez and Youk at the Corners and signing Jason Bay, we will win over 100 games for the first time since 04. enough said

How about this:

This is a far better approach to the Sox’s chances -

This Off-season: Sign Figgins (playing LF, 3B and RF during the course of his contact); Extend Beckett and Papelbon; Possibly extend VMart; Sign Rich Harden (upside if healthy; 1 year incentive deal with club option for 2011 – I will play along on the reclamation project for this year.) Keeping Bowden, Kelly and Anderson.

Next Off-season: Extend VMart; Sign Carlos Pena (become DH in 2012) or promote Lars Anderson (DH) and absolutely sign Carl Crawford;

And then in 2012: Prince Fielder or Albert Pujols.

2010 – Ellsbury (cf) – Figgins (lf) – VMart (c) – Youkilis (1b) – Pedroia (2b) – Ortiz (dh) – Drew (rf) – Lowell (3b) – Lowrie (ss) ; SP – Beckett-Lester-DiceK-Buchholz-Harden

2011 – Ellsbury (cf) -Crawford (lf) – VMart (c) – Youkilis (1b) – Pedroia (2b) – Carlos Pena or Lars Anderson (dh) – Drew (rf) – Figgins (3b) – Lowrie (ss) ;
SP: Beckett-Lester-Buchholz-DiceK-Bowden

2012 – Ellsbury (cf) – Carl Crawford (rf) – Pujols (1b) – VMart (c) – Youkilis (3b) – Pedroia (2b) – Figgins (rf) – Carlos Pena or Lars Anderson (dh) – Lowrie (ss) ;
SP: Beckett-Lester-Buchholz-DiceK-Bowden

2013 – Ellsbury (cf) – Crawford (rf) – Pujols (1b) – VMart (c) – Youkilis (3b) – Pedroia (2b) – Carlos Pena or Lars Anderson (dh) – Figgins (lf) – Iglesias (ss)
SP: Beckett-Lester-Buchholz-Bowden-Kelly

HOF baseball writer Peter Gammons who knows baseball better than anybody,says the Red Sox would be crazy to go after Roy Halladay as this could be Johan Santana II. The Twins wanted teams top value prospects for the lefty ace and Santana got his huge contract and then what? Tanked,got injured. He should’ve been dominating in the NL.
Halladay will be getting big money in the physical downside of his career in in his contract extension with a new team.
So Bradford says -get Halladay so other teams don’t.
The Red Sox need offense. 2 big bats. I don’t think SD is going to trade Adrian Gonzalez this offseason-he’s their big marquee player.
Miguel Cabrera will be the bat they get.
The Red Sox start shedding big contracts after 2010 and have money to burn.
Varitek,Lowell,Ortiz and then Drew after 2011 (thank God).

I also predict Papelbon will be gone once he hits unrestricted free agency.
I see Papelbons greed and huge ego taking the biggest offer he can get and taking his childish act to Yankee Stadium.

The problem with that is there are no big bats available in free agency outside of Bay and Holliday and unless the Sox are willing to give up 3 prospects (see above: Anderson, Bowden, Kelly) plus a Buchholz/Bard, the chances of the Sox getting Cabrera – this off-season is unlikely and if I were Epstein – I would focus on extension and Figgins. Figgins gives you versatility in the field (all three outfield positions and 3 of 4 infield positions), speed and bat control at the top of the lineup which allows Francona to move Pedroia to the 5 hole VMart-Youkilis-Pedroia-Ortiz and also allows Francona to have someone at the top of the lineup if he decides to move Ellsbury to the 7 hole which he has done in the past. Plus, after this year – when Lowell’s deal is up – Figgins can go back to 3b before the Pujols and Fielder deals come to pass, which as I have started earlier – is where the real cheesecake is….

St. Louis would be the best destination for Halladay where he would give the team 3 aces and have a very good chance of getting to the WS in the near term. He would also have an opportunity to bolster his resume as a “potential” Hall of Famer. He would have to have at least 5 good to very good years to be seriously considered and that will be tough to do in the AL East. Doc’s record at Fenway (6 and 9 with a 4.09 ERA) is not exactly the stuff of legends even though he would be pitching for rather than against the Sox. It’s understandable why the Sox would be in the conversation (rumor mill) as they always are when it comes to high profile available players, but the reality is that it is highly unlikely that there is anything of substance involved. The potential deals one hears about rarely are those that actually come to fruition.

This team has so many problems its laughable, no SS, No LF, old third baseman, a centerfielder that does not drive in runs. a RF that’s injured every other week. no backup catcher, this team is in decline. A closer that can’t wait to get out of town. If the Sox get Doc H and trade the farm, How will they keep Beckett? He will demand his piece of the pie. Beckett will go to the yankees? Yankees will take Lackey and keep all there young talent. Next year they will sign Carl Crawford and keep winning chapionships. The Sox will be worst off then the year before. Doc holladay has not been that effective at Fenway. Good luck

while the Red Sox play second fiddle to the yankees again they are slowly becoming a non-factor in the whole picture. Does anybody really believe this team that is worst then last years team has any chance of beating the yankees, even with Roy halladay they stand no chance. Does anybody think that the yankees will not try and improve there team of coarse they will. How about Aroldis Chapman? Where do you think he will want go? to a world series winner or a broken down Red Sox team that gets worse by the day. Your SS picked the Mets over the sox. What does that tell you. The Sox said they would going to pay him more and he still left. Just remember one thing people don’t talk about in Red Sox nation. The Sox will sell out Fenway wether are in first place or last place and right now they are closer to last then first

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