Peter Gammons

MLB Network and NESN analyst Peter Gammons joined the The Big Show Thursday afternoon to talk about the media frenzy surrounding LeBron James’ free agency, the future of Victor Martinez behind the plate and J.D. Drew’s neck injury — along with the rest of the wounded soldiers in the Red Sox clubhouse.

Following is a transcript. To listen to the entire interview, please visit The Big Show audio on demand page.

Let me ask you, as a media observer, and you’ve been part of different electronic and print media, are you amazed at what you see right now with this whole LeBron [James] fiasco? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it before in my life.

No, it’s remarkable. I mean we were talking about, for one thing, there’s just so much media now. And it’s so wild, I mean people are tweeting every 30 seconds. And it’s all out there. You have the two phenomenons coming — two trains running here on separate tracks. I’ve never seen anything in baseball like a Stephen Strasburg right now. He can draw almost three times as many fans in Atlanta. He pitches they draw forty-something thousand. He doesn’t pitch, they draw 14 to 18,000. I mean, it’s incredible. And the LeBron thing is, you’re right, it’s beyond – I’m trying to think of other great players when they went out in the market and I mean, it’s not even close.

There’s so many of us and there’s so much out there. In baseball we have some really good sites. MLBTradeRumors.com and the tweets come through on my phone like every 30 seconds. I mean it’s just incredible and the LeBron thing…it’s great for somebody. And you know, he’s a great player and he’s a great personality.

I do think there may be some backlash in the end, that if especially if he doesn’t go to Cleveland, and he ends up picking the place he wants and taking people with him. I think that there could be, from the NBA crowd across the country, there could be some backlash here. …Peter go back to 2000 and the Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez off-season, and imagine if we had Twitter back then and the way things are now. I think that would be comparable to what’s going on right now.

Manny would be checking out his Twitter.

Can you imagine what it would’ve been in like in that off-season? Remember those winter meetings?

I remember them well. I got stuck in Dallas because of ice storms. So I was like the last guy, the last reporter to get to ESPN. They had a group of seniors and there was a caroling concert. And there were all these seniors and carols and here I am talking about Manny Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez and they’re singing “Hark the Herald Angels Sing” [laughter].

Alright, let’s get to this Red sox situation. It’s remarkable what they’ve been able to pull together and Terry Francona and the crew over there deserve an awful lot of credit with all the injuries. We had Dustin Pedroia on yesterday, the latest of the injury bunch. But looking at where they are right now, and how they’ve been able to piece this and put this thing all together, are you not concerned about this bullpen right now, Peter?

No question. Just as I’m very concerned about the Yankees bullpen. You start thinking about who’s available and I don’t think Toronto’s going to trade [Scott] Downs or Jason Frasor within the Eastern Division. There’s so little out there, and both teams are going, “Uh oh, you know, we better get our starting pitchers pitching.” The Yankees have to get A.J. Burnett beating somebody, and the Red Sox need Beckett back and to get some more innings and length out of the starters because I’m not sure where the solutions come from at this point. I don’t see teams with decent relievers making it available right now.

Does it concern you not even more, and that you look at how many innings Daniel Bard has pitched, now he’s been amazing and a lot of it’s been because I don’t know maybe there’s not as much as trust here in [Hideki] Okajima but does that not concern you in the second half of the season, that if he tires out a little bit, where will that bullpen be?

No question. I mean that’s something that’s bothered me. As a matter of fact he appeared in five of the first six games back in April. I sent him a text asking if he had an incentive bonus for appearances. I mean, a power guy like that doing this for the first time, you worry about that.

July and August are the months when people really wear out relievers. But I know they’re very aware of it. John Farrell’s talked to me about it. They’re trying to monitor it and they’re still hoping that they can get Okajima back. I know Jason Varitek felt that there was a stretch, by necessity, where he got up where he got up six times in seven days and didn’t get into the games. And it impacted him. And I didn’t get a negative response from the manager or pitching coach on that either. They were sympathetic to that. But the problem is, [Scott] Atchinson’s been OK, he’s actually done a pretty good job. But the other guys, you look back and say OK what is there possibly in the minor leagues?

Michael Bowden’s starting to pitch really well and it’s come to the belief that he’s going to be a situational right-hander and coming out of the bullpen. I don’t know whether that kid out of the Independent League, [Robert] Coello, if he’s going to be ready to help. But they have to struggle around for them. It’s amazing we won that Saturday afternoon game when [Atchison] ended up having to start because [Daisuke] Matsuzaka couldn’t pitch. That was amazing. They’ve had some great things happen and [Felix] Doubront may end up coming up for [Clay] Buchholz next week. Ironically, their game days are exactly the same so he could step in and pitch in Tampa.

Two nights ago you have an 8-1 lead, you’re late in the ball game and you figured here’s a night we can get away without using much of that bullpen and you end up with Bard, you end up with Papelbon—those nights kill you. And now, if Manny Delcarmen has a physical issue here, then you’re going to have to find somebody, Peter, how do you do that? Where do you find them right now?

My guess is their first choice is Bowden. And then they scour waiver wires, you know, do you take [Chad] Qualls from Arizona? He’s still got good stuff. He can’t close, but he’s got good stuff.  But if you take him on he’s got a pretty big contract. And I don’t know if you want to waste that money before the trading deadline. So I think you’ll see a scramble of about 10 underachieving middle-relievers get traded out after the All-Star break. But that’s one of those things.

I used to create these trades where you get some guy like Qualls or some guy who’s an underachieving middle reliever, and you just keep trading, so they trade him around to 10 different teams for another middle reliever and then he ends up on the same team he started for. But it’s a serious issue for them. And it’s hard enough playing.

One of the things assumed about this team is that it’s going to be an interesting offensive team because you’re going to have [Marco] Scutaro batting ninth, [Jacoby] Ellsbury hitting first, Pedroia second, Victor Martinez third.  And it looks, “Oh, that’s going to be a really good team.” When Ellsbury’s on base, Pedroia hits fastballs all the time—he’s a great fastball hitter. And they’ve had those four guys in place for four games this season. And the whole Ellsbury thing, there doesn’t seem to be any answer. And clearly there’s a divide, there’s a divide between Jacoby and his people and the trust of the Red Sox medical staff. There’s no doubt about that.

So do you think this thing continues on a lot longer than this?

I don’t think so. I keep hearing that OK, sometime in three weeks or so. But we don’t know. I think there’s a concern that Pedroia will come back too fast, and his foot won’t be right. So you’re just trying to get through to the first of August and stay within two or three games–is really, I think, the goal. Then you hope that you have Beckett, [Jon] Lester, Buchholz, Matsuzaka and [John] Lackey—you have that rotation in place to save the bullpen. It’s getting there.

It’s been incredible what they’ve done without these people. A lot of times, it kind of reminds me of a basketball game when you’re down 30 points, and you make the run, and you get within four, and you get really excited, people just get worn out trying to get there. And as I think we are seeing with the Phillies, as the Red Sox completely revolve around Pedroia, the Phillies completely revolve around Chase Utley. Their personalities are summed up in those players. Sometimes you just burn out playing without those guys.

Peter I’m curious about Victor Martinez’s future. We all know it’s the last year of the contract, we all know he didn’t sign. But now he got hurt. We’re in July now, the trading deadline’s here. Is there any chance he does get traded if he gets healthy quick enough, and what is his future?

No, he’s not going get traded. He’s too important to this team. He’s actually, with the work he’s done, his throwing is back down to a little under two seconds to second base which isn’t bad. It’s average. He’s a good receiver–very good receiver, great hands. That’s not the problem because he can catch another year here. The question is how do they work out the deal after this year. Because if he’s a DH-first baseman, he’s not worth anywhere near as much as catching. But you can’t give him a Joe Mauer contract because he’s not going to be just a catcher for the next eight years or whatever Mauer signed for. So that’s a very tricky contract.

Right, because their side is going to be looking at it a little different—that he’s going to be “the best available catcher out there.”

Yes. But I have a feeling that he’ll end up staying because he likes it here so much. But it is a tricky situation. And the fact that—and of course, it’s complicated the current situation—the fact that they have both their catchers in Triple-A on the disabled list. That’s kind of slowing this thing even further. I do give him a lot of credit though. I don’t think he’s 29. His toes were essentially broken, and he never stopped playing. But then you can’t play with injuries in two different places in your body so they sit him down for a couple weeks.

Let me ask you the J.D. Drew question. We’re over at Fenway yesterday. Tito gives out his lineup around 3:00. J.D. Drew’s in the lineup. About an hour-and-a-half later, we find out that J.D. Drew can’t go, obviously coming in and telling the skipper he can’t do it because of the stiff neck. Pedroia’s doing our show, an interview shortly, I think, around 3:00, he’s out there on the field taking grounders on his knee.

Now I know so much of what we do is what we do is based on comparisons. And it’s not fair to compare anybody to Dustin Pedroia because he’s such a unique individual. How frustrating is it, though? How difficult is it for a manager when he’s already trying to band-aid lineups together from day to day to find out that the guy can’t go an hour-and-a-half before the first pitch?

I think it’s very frustrating. And actually there has been situations this year when Tito was going to give Drew time off because he had been banged up and Drew said, “No, I’m playing. You need me.” So, I believe the neck was really bothering him. But the thing that’s frustrating is that we have seen a couple months—September and October, two years ago when they won it in 2007, two years ago June and about the middle of July—J.D. carried the team. He’s a great player. And that’s the frustrating part. You’ve got so many guys hurt right now. When you’ve got the top third of your order out of the lineup you need J.D. He’s a high on-base guy. … he’s probably the best baserunner on the team. And for him not to be in it, it is frustrating. I mean there come’s a point when you want everyone to pull together. Victor was playing with that bad toe. Scutaro was playing hurt for a month. I’m not questioning J.D., except that you do say, ‘Oh,’ you wish that he’d like hurry up once in a while.

Listen, there’s no denying that certain guys over the year, Max and I talk about Scott Wedman all the time in basketball because he was one of those guys—you know he was one of those guys that an hour before the game would sit there and say, “Sorry I can’t go tonight.” There are some of those guys that just need to be close to 100 percent or close to 100 percent. They don’t believe that they can play. I don’t if its low tolerance for pain, its part of their make up or whatever.

But what you said is exactly right, Peter. What they need right now, because Pedroia and Victor Martinez have carried them here and obviously [Adrian] Beltre, have carried them in the last month. They need him to get hot right now. They can’t afford to have him not even in the lineup.

No, that’s why—and it’s been remarkable what people like Darnell McDonald have done.

Absolutely but can they continue doing that, Peter?

No, and that’s why Darnell is in his 14th year and is finally playing. And he’s done a terrific job for them. But no, they need Drew very badly. That was – one June, I think two years ago when he was the best hitter in the American League for a month and carried them through a very difficult period. But they need him back very badly.

The one thing about this stretch without Pedroia is that at least they’re not playing a couple of back-to-back series against the Yankees. But they still have a two and  three-game series with Tampa. They could use J.D. to go down to Tampa next week and have huge games against [Matt] Garza or [James] Shields or whoever they’re facing. They need that. And also, they need his defense in right field because Mike Cameron is not catching the same this series. He plays, I don’t know how in the world he does it, he goes out there and plays with that abdominal tear. But he does it. He tries. He misses balls we know he can catch. But I give him credit for trying.

Peter I’ll gladly eat some crow on Adrian Beltre—I don’t think I’ll be the only one. But it’s been a remarkable half-a-season so far for him, he should probably be an All-Star. How does this play on the rest of the  year and beyond with Beltre now?

Well, this is exactly what Scott Boras and Theo Epstein knew. This is why he came here cheap for one year, turning down three years with two other teams. Because he wanted to restore his career, so they got him on a one-year deal. And Adrian’s not taking that $5 million player option.

He’s not taking the $10 million with 640 plate appearances either, is he [laughter]?

No. I like him because he is the player I thought he was. … The Seattle situation was really bad for him, and I spent a lot of time with the Dodgers when he was there. They botched up an appendectomy in the Dominican Republic and I remember Gary Sheffield pointed it out with his shirt off. There was stuff oozing out of his side. He was still out there working out in 90 degree heat in a blue uniform for three hours, playing his heart out. This is a really tough guy. But he’s going to make himself a lot of money.

Has he always done this where with that swing, with the power swing, he drops to the knee and then the bat seems to drift? And how do you get power? He’s literally hitting the ball on the follow through. His knee is coming down.

I think it was Don Orsillo called it a wedding proposal [laughter].

It’s kind of like a wedding proposal. Have you ever seen that? Has he done this for a while?

Well he says he has. We just never saw it in Seattle. First of all, he is so big and so strong. I mean, I’m sure Belichick would love to give him a shot. He’s got that great body and that great quickness. But he said what he does is that the way he gets these looking fast balls, and he gets curve balls, or breaking balls down in the zone. He tries to follow the ball down and then come up on it. I’ve never seen anybody else do that. It’s fascinating, except for he always says to me, “Just, please tell people—kids—don’t try to do this. It’s the wrong thing to do but I don’t care.”

Did you see Varitek dive out of the way of him on that ‘tweener between home and third the other day?

That was hysterical. I mean, nobody wants to go near him at all [laughter].

Oh my goodness, he was taking two guys out already, so why would you go near him? But what do you think now about the whole situation with Tampa Bay? B.J. Upton who just two years ago, I thought, when we saw him in October I said, “He’s ready to go to the next level,” you know, an eight-tool player, nine-tool player, whatever. And yet, now he seems, in Joe Maddon’s doghouse to [Evan] Longoria, argument with him the other day, –and I don’t blame Longoria because he was certainly dogging it out there in centerfield—is that messing that team up right now, Peter?

Yeah, for a couple of reasons. One, they really needed him to have a big year. In spring training, one of the things that he’s lost in a lot of periods, is he’s lost his original swing. We were actually looking at some video of him two days ago and where his swing was three years ago, and where it was in the playoffs in 2008, and where it has been, where he just drifts. … he doesn’t get started, he’s late. They just throw fastballs by him. And, that’s all in that set-up. And spring training, he seemed to have restored his set-up. He worked with his hitting coach all winter in Tampa. I’m the genius who picked him to be the MVP so I raise my hand and say you can post me anywhere you want.

Well there’s not a more talented guy in Major League Baseball today that can virtually do everything, but you can’t see between the guy’s chest, but apparently there isn’t enough there. Something’s missing here.

There is. And Joe’s hoping that that whole thing will kind of wake him up, that he’ll reapply to the work that he did in the winter. And also realize that the question was raised that, do you know what it looks like when people are showing that replay over and over of you going half-speed after a ball in reality? I mean, that’s going to get shown. It’s a part of the nature of what we do today.

And fans are rightfully, totally in power of players who don’t play hard. I don’t think B.J.’s a dog, I just don’t think he really understands. His brother, who is actually more talented, would never have that happen. But they’re two distinctly different personalities and I think B.J. just gets discouraged, gets down and doesn’t do it. I hope that this whole thing will cause him to break out of it and become a really good player. But at this point, we were talking about his trade value. I think a lot of teams will be afraid of him at this point because you’d have to give up a lot to Tampa Bay to get him.

We look now at a three-team race, here in the East, and a threat to the Red Sox of making the postseason. Are the Rays, right now, facing that, in the off-season, that turning point, that breaking point. They’re not getting their stadium right, they’re not getting their ball park, they’ve got two key players, free agents, Upton right now has been a disappointment. They can’t really go and spend the money now. Peter, are they at the breaking point here of maybe they’re going to drift down to that next level?

It’s a distinct possibility. They do have very good young pitching. I mean, I told Garza last night, Garza and Shields, they can take Shields out and put Jeremy Hellickson in there. He’ll be fine. …So they know their windows of players. I mean they can say, all they want, “Boy, oh, we’ve got Desmond Jennings coming next year.” But Desmond Jennings hasn’t yet proven that he’s Carl Crawford at a Major League Level.  He’s hit .270 in Triple-A, which is fine, but that’s not Carl Crawford.

I can remember talking to their owners and saying, “You’ve got to do things in about four-year windows and then you have to go back, and build back up.” Now Minnesota got lucky because Minnesota got the new stadium and all of a sudden all these Fortune 500 companies come in. They’re now a top eight, top 10 revenue team. So they went from being a small market team that was being contracted, to being almost a large market team.

But that’s not going to happen in Tampa. They’re not going to get ten Fortune 500 companies moving in there in the next three years.

Hey, Peter, I’ve got one last thing. A month from today, the Red Sox are coming back from a West Coast trip. It’s a Thursday. They’re off. And the trading deadline is Saturday. They’ve got a lot of moving parts heading into this off-season. Could we see something crazy from Theo Epstein a month from today?

I think it’s always a possibility because I think Theo is never afraid to do something really creative. I look at it and I say they’ll figure it out at the end of the season what they’re going to do with certain things. The other three infield positions are going to be set because they have [Portland Sea Dogs prospect Jose] Iglesias coming in two years to play shortstop. I can see them doing something creative with a catcher. I can see them doing something pretty creative with an outfielder, but I don’t think you’ll see anything too wild.

One thing I keep thinking about, and you know Cleveland will have to pay at least half the money–and you’re probably going to say, “Peter’s screaming about Eric Gagne again”—but the one guy that kind of intrigues me is Kerry Wood. And he has had three saves in a row. He’s throwing 98 miles an hour, but he’s throwing 98 and hasn’t done—but at the same time he’s intriguing to get as a guy to pitch in the seventh inning. And I just wonder if he might not be a guy that he would go after, after the All-Star break. Because you know if we only have two months to his contact then he’s done, then maybe we can do that.