Damn Lou, I loved how you back Pap all season long but no you turn on him? Your loseing some cred. I think we need Pap because other than bard theres no one else. Yea Scot Atchison was alright but not enough to be decent.

We saw a different Pap this past season. He was quiet, reserved and seemed to be carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders. Seemed like something was wrong. At any rate, if the Sox don’t dump him now, they just may wind up watching him go to free agency and get nothing in return. The Sox could at least get something for him now or wait until the trading deadline and try to rip off a contender. They should sign Soriano if they’re entertaining any idea of trading him. I’m not sold on Bard just yet.

Papelbon is obssed with his contract like NO other player I have ever seen.

Hey Jarrod,

Are you really upset with Lou? Don’t be upset. Everything will be fine. I know your upset because your post was a victim of your distress. I think you mean to say “but NOW you turn on him”. And it’s “losing” not “loseing”. No big deal actually because if you weren’t so emotional these little errors would not have occurred. Just calm down. I’m here whenever you need me, Jarrod! Also, it’s is actually “there’s” not “theres”. Again…no biggie right? Well, OK, just one more little thing, you big silly. In your last sentence “alright” and “decent” have well… sort of the same meaning in this context. Maybe you could say “acceptable” and then something like “superduper!” or “oh boy!”.

Anyway, hope you have a good day. And you too Lou!

Smoochies!
- Suzy

Oh shuckums! Who is the big silly now. Look what I did: “I know your upset because”. Who knows what I did wrong? It should be “you’re”. See you just can’t be careful enough.

He will be a yankee and shut the door on the Sox when he becomes a free agent. He would love that more then anything. To stick it to the fair weather fans of Boston. Ever notice when the sox have players they are the greatest
when they decide they don’t want them or they want to leave they become bums, Pedro, Nomar, Boggs, Bay, and look at what they did to lowell a guy they wanted to discard like old laundry and even pay his salary they give him his own day what a joke. What will the spin be when they lose Beltre and V-Mart

The problem with dealing Pap at the deadline is if the Sox are in contention (which they likely will be), dealing your closer is impossible. You just can’t do it. It would be too much of a shock to the whole structure of the bullpen. Plus, the odds of a contender needing a closer is probably low.
If he leaves at the end of the year, the Sox get nothing. And does anyone think Pap is going to revert to 2-3 years ago form and convince the team to give him a monster deal? I hope so, but I doubt it.
I agree with Lou. Now’s the time. Even if the market isn’t great for a closer, there’s no better time. Use Pap to get some trade bait (Upton, Gonzalez, etc) and use the leftover money to get a couple solid arms to help Bard. I’m not a huge Matt Capps fan, but he’d be a great 8th inning guy with closer experience in case Bard can’t handle the duty.

Sorry Lou, but given the huge market for relievers, that’s exactly the reason why Paps WON’T be traded. They simply won’t get anything decent in return for him. No team is going to take on Pap with a 12 million dollar salary AND give up anything of serious, substantial, value that could benefit the team in something like a Gonzalez trade if they could just turn around and look at the plethora of available setup men and closers on the free agent market. Sure, if a team somehow overvalues Pap and wants to make a trade by all means do it. But don’t go trading Papelbon just because you think you have to. The Boston Red Sox are still a better team with him than without him.

I think they need to trade Paps and Jacoby with a few prospects to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalaz. Sign Crawfrod or Werth and a couple on BP arms. let Pedroia lead off. A lineup od Pedroia,Drew,Youk,AGONE,Werth,Ortiz,Cameron,Salty,and Lowrie/Scutaro would be great

Pap is done. The stupid glare worked when he was un-hittable, now it is silly. His fastball has lost it’s tail and now he has a hard time getting out of an inning.

Suzee; u, must, be ,atratve if ,gys let you get ,awy wth the contant. snoty gramr nagginggg,

I hope that made your head spin hahaha

much love
MC

Wow Lou. I actually agree with you. Pap’s trends all last season were disturbing. The walks. The hits after being up 0-2 on the batter. The long balls. The blown saves and the heart attack saves. It’s scary, but I think it’s time. Maybe in his head, Pap has already moved on and that may have something to do with his LACK of concentration. The mean face doesn’t work anymore. It’s kind of a joke. But if he ends up in pin stripes, you can bet your bippy he will SHUT DOWN the red sox. And we play the Yankees 19 or 20 times in a season. I don’t think he’ll be traded so it will be business as usual.

Hey can someone get Jarrod’s filthy comments off the website. And get him a bar of soap for his potty mouth too.

@ Jarrod,
Dude, take a chill pill and be glad someone actually read your grammatically challenged rant. Calling people names as a comeback is so juvenile. And by the way, it’s “you’re a” and “pay their”. Maybe a quick trip back to grade school for some remedial help.
Cheers!

I don’t think anyone wants paps at $12M, so it’s a moot point, he’s here in 2011 like it or not.

I’m more interested in non-pitchers. Other than Pedoria & Youk, it’s a bunch of rather mediocre players. I especially hate when the sox sign 2 has-beens (like Smoltz & Penny) for more than it would cost for one good player. The sox are the #2 team in baseball (behind the yanks) in revenue, so put some quality players out on the field. If not, then move up players from AAA, but no more overpaying for has-beens (Cameron) or overhyped Boras clients (Drew).

jarrod jarrod you poor stupid and stunted man, showing everyone how crude and poorly educated you are is really quite embarrassing for you. of course we all can see how you are probably incapable of understanding this so will the editor Please remove jarrod’s crude [sp?], rude and classless remarks from the web. How about banning this little boy till his mommy teaches him some manners ?
i’m just sayin…
richardinmaine

oh my, now look , jarrod has a family relation chiming in. smkndoobs… pls read the above , you qualify. just an fyi [ that means for your information ]i just looked up the definition for moron and guess who’s names are used as examples.. yep , you and jarrod are known simpletons.
i’m just sharin’…
richardinmaine

i dont know if i would trade pap, but i would be for muzzleing him. he makes johnny damon look like steven hawkings!

Paps is pitching for his contract. What better player to have than a guy who is playing for his next contract. The Sox can make a real run at a championship with him closing. I say keep him, let him throw his arm off this year, and then move on. He will go to another team because he has already said he’s going to the highest bidder.

Lou is right. The answer is simple. Non tender him. Invest the twelve million towards a three year contract for Soriano. That, or bring in Downs, Capps, and Balfour. Let Bard continue to set up with Capps closing.If these moves don’t entice you, there is a guy down in NY who is still available.Mariano Rivera.Open up the checkbook,Red Sox.

Robert…Non-tender him? Really? You said Lou is right. But he did NOT suggest THAT extreme a move. Did you see what Benoit just got from Detroit? Three years/18.5 mil…after ONE good year as a set-up man. Any idea what Soriano gets? Pap @ 12M may look like a bargain. And you’ll probably have to give more than 3 years to land him too.

Nope. Suffer through the season and hope to get a great year. He sure has the incentive. If he falters at all…THEN replace him with Bard. Even more incentive for Pap. If he does well…you still have the option of trading him away before the deadline (if you’re still so confidant in Bard). If not…keep him, but let him walk after the season(after tendering an offer he will likely decline) and take the picks. Too give away a valuable asset just to save some money would be folly. They have the money.

@Ouchie…Well said about Jarrod. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Jarrod, if you can’t have an intelligent conversation with people, don’t bother. We are all laughing at you. By the way, I do agree that it is time to move on from Pap.
@Jarrod..Ask Mom for a spell checker for Christmas.

Lou, let’s do the deal. Bard is ready and has been ready. I’m glad you came to the realization this is the time. Extra help can be added to the pen with the money they save in dealing Pap.

Trading Papelbon is reasonable. Paps has unrealistic salary expectations. He thinks he’s the next Mariano, but has yet to prove it. 2010 may have been an off year, but the decline in his fastball indicates otherwise. He should get working on secondary pitches and command. If he’s traded now, the Sox get someone for him. Paps is going for free agency unless the Sox overpay him with a big contract.

$12 million to blow 12 games in 2011? Insane. He throws his spitter when count is 3-2 always resulting in more walks. His saves are usually hair raising as he usually loads bases and allows a few runs and walks so many, allows home runs and many hits. Does Mariano Rivera allow any of this nonsense? NO!!!

Why would Rivera even think of going to the Sox he has won 5 championships with the yankees that’s more then the Sox have won in 100 years. Plus the Sox are losers not winners. They are getting worst not better

Hey, Babe Ruth who blew a a 3-0 lead in a 7 game series?!!! Who’s the loser?!!! Really?!!! You Babe and your curse need to just go away. Funny, a Yank fan would try to float a name like that by a Sox fan, especially the way the Yanks choked their way into baseball history

I first want to say that Pap’s 2010 season was an acceptable level of performance for a journeyman closer. That said, he has not performed as an elite closer for 2 years. He is scheduled to be paid as an elite closer through arbitration this year, then goes into F/A. I’ve argued he should be traded or non-tendered because his value to us is no longer there. I’d give him a 1-year contract for his anticipated $12-$13MM, non-guaranteed, and trade him for whatever we can get, after agreeing to pick up half his salary for 2011. Boston needs an elite closer. Bard can be that elite closer, or we can sign someone else who can be. Its time to extract whatever value we can out of Pap and give him a chance to get back to excellence in a different environment.

Did u not read his entire article? Getting rid of paps frees up 12 mill. Where can tht money go towards? How bout 2-4 of those top notch free agents. Now u have bard as ur closer and great vets surrounding him… it sounds like a great plan and of wht my sources tell me, there Is a weak market for him but enough to get him out of town for a few prospects. Good article lew

It may be that Papelbon is obstinate to a fault (he certainly acts like a hammerhead on the mound) but I would like to see how he responds to the new pitching coach. Like most young pitchers, he overthrows — but the problem is, he is no longer a young pitcher and doesn’t throw as hard as he did in 2007.
John Farrell always looked good writing in his big notebook but he didn’t do much to teach his pitchers about pitching. Jon Lester is a phenomenal talent but he often reaches 120 pitches in the sixth inning. Mr. Overpaid, John Lackey, rarely hits the spot he is aiming for, and gives up too many hits and walks and (thankfully, most of the time) is forced to leave the game because of a huge pitch count.
Josh Beckett has lost a foot or two on his fastball — isn’t it time he, too, learned to pitch to spots and to change speeds? And don’t even start with Dice-K, who always wants another mile or two out of his fastball and has terrible pitching rhythm and mechanics.
Most big-league pitchers learn (or are taught) better control during their careers. Mariano Rivera has been a one-pitch pitcher in his long and glorious career but, in recent years, that marvelous cutter is almost always in the same spot, boring in on left-handed hitters or disappearing off the outer edge versus right-handed hitters. Papelbon has more pitches — better “stuff” — than Rivera but poor control and not a clue how to pitch. Perhaps Young can help.
Mike Guetti

I agree 100% with Lou that the best move is to non-tender Pap and use the money to get two of the relievers on the market. I would think $12 million should be able to get two to three of them. I would look at guys like Putz, Fuentes, maybe Bobby Jenks if the Whitesox non-tender him as is rumored, then maybe a Jason Frasor, Jesse Crain or Grant Balfour. Then you go closer by committee until somebody, Bard or one of the other experienced closers, establishes themselves as the 9th inning guy.

Keeping Pap at $12 million makes no sense as he is no longer an elite closer, which is what that dollar figure implies. Plus you know he will be a problem as he plays out his option. Also, you can’t sign him, trade him and pay half his salary as some people are proposing. That is dumb because everybody wins in that deal except the Red Sox. Think about it, Pap gets his inflated contract at $12 million, the other team gets Pap at 1/2 price (a $6 million pitcher) and the Red Sox have $6 million less to find a replacement while subsidizing another team for the pleasure. That would be very foolish. You can’t expect a great prospect in return either when most expect Pap to get non-tendered.

No the move to me is a non-tender unless you can get him to sign for something reasonable (which he won’t) around $7 million or so.

Hey larry in case you didn’t know the Yankees are the team of the century. That’s why they are the best team in baseball history. They don’t win 2 championships in a hundred years they win championships 4 in a 5 year period. Everybody always said there was this curse, there was really never any curse the Red sox just sucked for 86 years. That’s about when they will win one again.

Dano,my idea comes with a stipulation. The 12 million saved goes as a portion of Soriano’s contract. Then you can have Bard safely in the setup role, and Soriano nailed down for three years. Or, as I mentioned,two or three quality guys in middle relief. I am not suggesting that they hold on to the money. Theo has to realize that relief pitching of any type is important and they will have to hand out two and three year contracts, such as Benoit just received.The Red Sox don’t get that yet. And, if Pap can’t pitch up to his old standards, an entire season is wasted. Lou’s point is that is to much of a gamble.

Don’t forget, we are already paying another 12 million to a DH who can’t hit lefties,can’t play a position, can’t run, will show up Tito if he tries to pinch hit or platoon with him, will not hit the other way agains’t a shift, and try to pepper the wall? Pap and Papi. How many bad contracts can a team afford ?

hey jason he is definetly not going to ny maybe the mets but not the yanks

I disagree Peter. Paps would go to the Yankees if they gave him the most money. Paps has been quite consistent in saying that he wants to set the standard for what a closer gets paid. To me, that means the Yankees. However, Jason must be a Mets fan. He thinks like a Met. He wants to keep players after they are past their prime. Pedro, Nomar, Lowell, Bay all declined sharply upon leaving. Boggs did continue to do well as a batter after he left the Sox, but his fielding declined substantially. Anyhow Boggs left the Sox in a different era with different ownership.

Of course, Lowell didn’t leave, but only because he was too broken down to go.

Jonathan Papelbon had the worst season in his career thats obvious but to trade him would just hurt Bostons 2011 season he has absolutely no trade value right now based on the money he will command. Lets look back Bostons pen last year wasn’t very good Delcarmen struggled, Ramon Ramirez(the guy that tore it up in SF) struggled in Beantown, Okajima had issues and Papelbon struggled. The BLAME JOHN FARRELL! he’s gone now thank god! and the guy thats taking over (Curt Young) he is a very very very good pitching coach I think he’ll get these guys going in the right direction. Papelbon needs to re-invent himself a bit and quit throwing that dang splitter all the time, young is the type of guy that will teach and mentor which is what paps needs right now. Maybe I’m crazy for thinking young is going to fix everything but I really think he will. I live near Oakland and I watched what a great job he did with that pitching staff for years. Paps deserves a chance to bounce back in a Boston uniform and if he still cant figure it out well thats okay because he’s a free agent anyways.

I hope you are right about Young and Pap, but even if John returns as a premier reliever, he will never stay beyond next year.Then your back to square one. I don’t know whats out there next year,but i can’t possibbly match this years crop.Why not take care of the problem now?

Jonathan Papelbon had the worst season and did not even care after every awful performance. he is all done get rid of him he has nothing left and there are so many better closers then him but Theo is a joke and he should be gone too after last year Theo gets paid for doing nothing
The red Sox need many changes otherwise forget it sox fans
Lackey Cameron Beckett what a stupid bunch of signings by THEO all those players are washed up and all they care about is money and like all pro athletes they all cheat on there wife’s with a different girl in every city

Suzy……..are you an English teacher or just a single woman with too much time on her hands? Must be the latter, as you made a few errors yourself. This isn’t “are you smarter than a 5th grader.” What’s said is more important than how it’s said.

The answer is simple having 2 Closers on a team referring to Paps and Bard is better than one, none of those 11 names on that list are better relievers than Paps and bard. Like someone said earlier “the Redsox are a better team with him, than without him” that is a true statement! Paps is still a premier closer. So what if he walks into free agency? He’s earned it and relievers are a revolving door they are always available through free agency and trade and Bard will replace Paps as an all star type closer so we are covered. If he saves 30+ games with an under 2 1/2 ERA and helps propel us to the playoffs he’s done his job in 2011. Papelbon is also playing for his highly coveted big contract so he may have a career year which could benefit The Redsox just as much as him plus Young is there to clean up Farrell’s mess so I personally see a much more capable staff and the one everyone was talking about prior to the 2010 season. Look the gripes with Beckett and Lackey are legitimate but Beckett had health issues and those have put him out of commission in the past and he has bounced back. Lackey is a location pitcher he’s a guy that even though he’s older could thrive with the help of Curt Young, we cant forget lackey had good seasons in Anaheim not that long ago so he’s more than capable of being a solid 4 or 5 guy.

Was Paps ever “an elite closer”, or does it count if Paps, and only Paps, believes it ?? He has always been a legend in his own mind. You know its for real when others in the baseball world believe it. As a closer he doesn’t even reside in the same universe as Mo Rivera. Don’t break your pitching arm patting yourself on the back Paps.

Mike, you said “We saw a different Pap this past season. He was quiet, reserved and seemed to be carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders. Seemed like something was wrong.”

Something WAS wrong. Your team SUCKED. Third place is not wrong for the team with the second-highest payroll in baseball? PapSmear is a tool. He has no sense of history and no respect for the game. All he cares about is getting paid and he knows his skills are already deteriorating. Even his 10-cent head can see that. I hope Dopey Theo keeps him. That’s one less year of Bard closing. Bard is the only guy in the Red Sux bullpen who scarews me. Papelbum is very beatable.

@JasonBay — I can assure you that Papelbum will NEVER be a Yankee. The fan base hates him like no other player. He is an arrogant A-hole with no sense of tradition. And the Yankees are all about tradition. PLUS, PapSmear dissed Mariano Rivera. He will NEVER be forgiven for that. How do you diss the man Jon Miller refers to as “The Great Rivera”? He’s only the greatest closer of all time.

@GoRedSox — You baboon, why would the Padres take a pitcher who they would have for ONE YEAR who is going to make $12 MILLION for Adrian Gonzalez? The reason the Padres are trading Gonzalez is because they can’t afford him, yet you want them to take on a $12 milion salary. FACT — The Red Sux don’t get Gonzalez without Bard being part of the package. Papelbum is your problem. He will not be part of a package with an injury-prone outfielder for one of the elite bats in the game.

@xos der — You talk sense. Congratulations for being one of the few here capable of that. You and that Suzy chick. She cracks me up.

@Larry Sutliff — I love how Red Sox fans ALWAYS fall back to 2004 when they have nothing of substance to say. The Yankees choked their way into 27 World Series titles? That’s the only history that matters, chucklehead. Oh, and by the way, the greatest choke in sports history belongs to last year’s Boston Bruins against the Flyers. I’m sure you remember what happened there.

I agree with Mike about Theo. He has gone from boy genuis to 30 something dummy.Even in the early days, he made some terribble trades. Freddy Sanchez and Mike Gonzalez for Jeff Suppan. Hillebrand for Kim. Letting Renteria go after he had just knocked in 100 runs in 05.And then paying for the contract? Stupid! And don’t think for a minute that he didn’t have something to do with the Hanley Ramarez trade.Can you imagine a home grown infield of Youk, Hanley, Pedey, and Lowrie? Recently, he has been at his worst by resigning Beckert when he wasn’t a free agent,but had not pitched well.Lackey? Terrible signing.Not getting it, that today, you need 5 quality arms in the pen and you have to pay well to get them. Example: Saito? Why was he let go? Probably wanted more then one year. Time for one veteran GM to take the reigns. Even Luchino, if need be. Tell Henry to leave the payroll up to the GM.Fire Theo now while the offseason can still be salvaged.

Beckett,Lester and Lackey.
All just given big boy contracts.
And all three bummed out.
And now PappelBum?
Epstien can go too!!!

Lou,
fans like me take your comments personally. Papelbon is our man, and unlike you, we have the loyalty to not throw him under the bus. Take your flip flop opinions somewhere else.

PAPS IS A PUNK ANYWAY!!!!! DUDE NEVER SIGNS AUTOGRAPHS ANYMORE AFTER HE GOT A RING!!! VERY STUCK UP SO I HOPE THEY TRADE HIM SOMEWHERE LIKE KANSAS CITY OR PITTSBURGH AND LET HIM SPEND HIS BEST YEARS REBUILDING!!!

I agree with Lou. Time has passed,and instead of nontendering Pap to save the money,they chose to keep him and add a couple of maybe’s in Jenks and Wheeler. Give the Tigers credit. They had the vision to go out and sign Benoit.Had the Sox taken this route, or Soriano,and added Downs and Feliciano from the left side, they would have had a nearly perfent pen which would have been in place for 3 years.They have done a good job this winter, but it’s the things they could have and probably should have done,and did not, that will cost them in the end.

Add me to the list of people who feel that Paps will join the Yankees next year as a setup man to Mo, and really hurt the Sox for years.

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