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Curt Schilling on D&C: ‘I’m not asking for sympathy’ after losing $50M in business collapse 06.22.12 at 10:01 am ET
By Jerry Spar

Curt Schilling

Former Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling joined Dennis & Callahan in studio Friday morning to talk about the demise of his video game company.

Schilling said he invested “just north of $50 million” of his own money and lost it all. “I’m tapped out,” he insisted.

Schilling said he sat down his family about a month ago and explained to them that “38 Studios was probably going to fail and go bankrupt, and that the money that I had earned and saved during baseball was probably all gone. And that it was my fault. And that they might start hearing some things in school and things like that. And let’s be clear: We’re not talking about a terminal illness or somebody dying. But it’s a life-changing thing. It’s not a conversation I would wish on any father, or on anybody. But I had to do it, and explain to them that part of growing up is being accountable. This was my decision to do this, and I failed. And life would probably start to change and be very different for us.”

Schilling acknowledged that he and his leadership team “made a lot of mistakes,” but he also made it clear that he feels Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee shares in the blame. Rhode Island lured 38 Studios from Massachusetts with $75 million in loan guarantees, but when the company missed a loan payment in May, Chafee publicly questioned the future of the company, indicating he was working to keep the company “solvent.”

Said Schilling: “That word, it was an enormous problem immediately for us.”

Asked if he thought Chafee was disappointed in the studio’s demise, Schilling said: “No, not at all. I think he had an agenda and executed it.”

Following are more highlights from the conversation. To hear the interview, go to the Dennis & Callahan audio on demand page.

On his personal investment in the company: “I put everything in my name in this company. I believed in it. I believed in what we had built. I never took a penny from this company. I never took a penny in salary, I never took a penny for anything. It was different. What we built was so incredibly different from a company perspective. And what we had, it was amazing. I think it was a dream place to work. …

“Obviously, it’s been a challenging couple of months, and I couldn’t imagine this. But I’m not asking for sympathy. That was my choice. I chose to do this. I wanted to build this. I wanted to create the jobs and create something that had a very longstanding world-changing effect. We were close. We were close to getting there. It just fell apart.”

On why his company failed: “We didn’t raise capital. We didn’t get private capital. At the end of the day, when you look at all the things that we did, I put all the money I said I’d put in, I guaranteed the things I guaranteed from a loan perspective, I never took a penny out, and we spent the money exactly how we defined it in all the documentation with the state. And the one thing that we always listed as a going concern, we couldn’t execute and we could not raise private capital. For a litany of different reasons — I’m sure if you ask anybody, they’ll give you one or more reasons — the hard part, and probably the most painful part, for the first time in 5 1/2 years, we were so close. And it just didn’t work out.”

On how 38 Studios employees found out about the company’s problems: “The employees got blindsided. One of the many, many mistakes I think that was made — or that I made, or that we made as a leadership team — was that this came out of nowhere for them. In all honesty, they found out because Gov. Chafee made a comment on Monday night about 7 o’clock, a public comment — which neither side had ever publicly commented on anything we were doing — and it was based around keeping the company, he used the word ‘solvent.’ That word, it was an enormous problem immediate for us. But the employees had no idea. Payday was the next day, and they didn’t get a paycheck. And it just went downhill from there. … The employees got blindsided. They didn’t deserve it. It was not how we ever did business. The employees were everything. That was what the company was and it was about. … I always told everybody, if something were going to happen you’re going to have a month or two lead time. And I bombed on that one in epic fashion.”

On if he overpaid his employees: “That was the only way we could build the team that we built. Listen, we absolutely made mistakes. But everything I’ve ever done in my life has been from my heart. That was why I was able to do what I was able to do I think in October [in the baseball postseasons]. And that was why I was the pitcher I was, because I feel like my heart pushed me to do some things that I might not have otherwise done if I was using my head. To counterbalance that I surrounded myself with incredibly intelligent people in the software business.”

On his $75 million loan guarantee from Rhode Island: “I had put at that point about $30 million of my own money into the company, and we were looking for investment. When they approached us and talked about this deal, obviously it was incredibly attractive, because we would have the state as a partner — we initially thought we would have them as a partner. This is one of the private venture hubs of the works — Boston, New England area and California. Initially, that looked like it would be a huge boon, because we would have them in our corner, working with us and for us. And it just never ever materialized.”

On why 38 Studios needed additional tax credits from Rhode Island: “The payroll piece was all tied to the tax credits, which we, about a month prior, in mid-April we were in the finally stages and processes of finalizing and finishing, and we assumed would be done within a week of mid-April. And then we got the default letter, which was another kind of a stunning incident. They knew the week before that we were not going to be making [the May loan payment]. We had a meeting, and we told them cash is tight. As our partner, here’s where we are. We made a mistake, we didn’t specifically ask them to give us an extension. And we just assumed based on the conversation that they understood we won’t be able to make this payment on the first [of May], but at some time in the next 30-45 days we should be comfortably able to make that payment. …

“The first came and went and the fourth, which was the Friday of that May, we got a default letter, which completely blindsided us. The default letter triggered a lot of other things. We were then immediately ineligible for tax credits and all this other stuff. We were actually confused as to why we got it. Because again, this is our partner and we’re trying to work together to make the company successful. They had every right to issue it, we’ve never argued that, but we just assumed based on the conversation [that they would be more cooperative]. Absolutely. We ended up having multiple discussions. They came back and came to the table. We have a litany of e-mails where we made multiple agreements in different places. They came back, they wanted equity, they wanted other things. We acquiesced to everything. We had an agreement multiple times. And then the fraudulent check story popped up. That should have been the final red light, that somebody is doing something very evil here.”

On criticism that he, as a conservative, was hypocritical for taking money from the government: “I’m not sure where my stance and opinion in that we need a smaller government, I’m not sure how that correlates to this. … The program was there for local businesses to use. In a sense, we were a dream company to use them, because we were local. That money was literally coming out of the budget into our company, going right back into the local economy. Our employees live in Rhode Island, spend the money in Rhode Island. And 99 percent of the tax credit money was for payroll and development. So, all that money was spent locally, for rent and all the things that you do to keep a company running.”

On a lack of support from Chafee: “If you remember, after Governor Chafee went into office, he came by the studio, he had made a public comment that he was against the deal before he got elected but now that he was in the office he was going to everything he could do to help this company succeed. And that absolutely unequivocally never ever happened in any possible way. That’s not the sole reason this company failed. It’s not. And again, I’ll keep repeating it: I’m responsible for absolutely a part of this. It’s just, it’s crushing and devastating to have seen it fall and fail exactly the way it did after five years of building this. …

“There were a lot of situations where I think he could have helped us succeed. And probably the one thing at the end — and I said this earlier — that people don’t understand is that we had an investor at the end that would write a 15-20 million dollar check — told the state, told the governor he would write this check. His ask of the state was to be in senior position for the debt and for the state to issue the $6 million in tax credits to clean up the mess that we had gotten into over April and May. If that happened, he would come in and save the company.”

On how he deals with all the criticism he’s received of late: “I’ve heard some of this before. From the comment in ’04 that I’ve never ever been able to walk away from, I’ve always heard things like this. It’s painful to hear people wish and hate. I’ve been in a lot of situations in my life. And in probably the 15 or 16 years since I’ve become a Christian, I don’t know that I’ve ever said I hate somebody. I dislike people and I have problems with [people], but I don’t hate. It takes too much energy to hate. But the amount of hatred is surprising, given that I’ve never hit my wife, I’ve never driven drunk, I’ve never taken drugs, I’ve never done steroids, I’ve never done the things that a lot of people have done. It doesn’t mean I’m faultless. I make mistakes every day and I’ve done and said a bunch of stupid stuff in my life. But I’ve never done it maliciously. I’ve never done it with ill will or evil intent.  I believe I’ve always had a pretty good heart and tried to be good to people.”

On his future as an ESPN analyst: “We had a discussion, and we mutually agreed that we would back off and let this thing play itself out.”

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  • BloodyRI

    Loved Schill as a ballplayer.  Can’t stand his politics. 

    Why no questions regarding his obvious hypocrisyabout accepting public funding when he is a “small gov’t” repub/teapartier? 

  • Frozenrope26

     You obviously don’t understand the difference between receiving investment funds, and bailing out a failing business, better known as throwing good money after bad. In fact it legitimizes his standpoint, that the business failed and didn’t receive a bailout. He made enormous personal investment, which has now destroyed everything he ever had. There are winners and losers in business. RI deserves what it gets for not doing due diligence in it’s investment, then torpedoing the business with damaging public statements. Try thinking with a rational mind instead of like a partisan hack.

  • jim brown

    Stick with your core principels and don’t change when it appears that an opportunity is available to exploit someting you did not believe in. If you believe in small government that does not give hand outs, that is OK believe in it regardless.  I put this chump in the same class with Scott Brown.  He voted against the Health Care Bill but his daughter is a benefactor of it.  What a hypocrite.

    Worse of all is the arrogant atitude this man has displayed, knocking everything and everybody.  Fools suffer1

  • Ackdog41

    Your missing the point. Small government encourages business growth through funding and credits, large government wants to control everything a company can or can’t do. Every civilization in the history of this world that has adopted large government or communism for that fact has either failed (Russia, because they run out of money) or has oppressed it people to the point where they do not contribute or leave for a better life somewhere else (China, Cuba, N. Vietnam) and are willing to die trying.

  • Buffe43

    Moron liberals even on this site—geez.

  • mortgagemangolfer

    Sports and life–sometimes the same, sometimes different.  Through sheer force of will, Schill made things happen on the ballfield that were incredible.  Believing in something is important, but believing in the right thing is even more important.  At his core, I think Schill believes in the right thing, but with his fortune gone he’ll find out whether his core will endure.  I pray it will for his and his family’s sakes.  God bless.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITP5OTWL7AAXJS5CDSVQEY54DQ Erich

    Pointing out extreme examples does not help your argument, especially Vietnam, which has progressed to an admirable modern-day economy.  The U.S.S.R. failed because it was woefully mismanaged and they drowned themselves with runaway defense and counter-intelligence spending in response to us instead of spending that money on social reform to placate a disgruntled populace.  Well, the social reform part is not entirely true as under Gorbachev a lot of reforms were attempted, but conservative party elements were afraid of change and eventually brought about an insurrection.  Also, Bolshevism is not synonymous with socialism or communism despite having elements of both.  China is not a great example either as their government has become more moderate (comparatively), but they’re still a ‘communist’ state and have shown immense economic and social growth.  The only unfortunate part of that is that China has also gained a huge amount of influence on our own market and we have lost a great deal of active industrial capacity.  For Cuba, Cuba I will give you, but Cuba has a very different history and set of circumstances and it is arguable to say that without draconian measures the Cuban state would have collapsed years ago, especially without outside support.

    Anyway, the point being is that all states need to learn to moderate between socialist and capitalist influences as capitalism can not and should not be trusted to run everything in a society.  I do not want public services, health care, and societal upkeep tasks to be for profit businesses.  A nation has a responsibility to maintain the general welfare and well being of its citizenry and only by way of government do the people maintain any oversight into that role.  We all can vote for or against elected officials who support policies we approve or disapprove of, we have no such right with private business.  I can hold a public official accountable who fails me, I can not do that with a corporation, in fact, that corporation’s goal is to do as little as possible for me while receiving the most it can from me.  I do not want that to be the motivation for everything in a society as it quickly creates antagonism and selfish divisions.

    Still, I do not want government to run everything either as that also creates a monopoly of power.  When there are no private citizens capable of challenging government then government is also in danger of becoming corrupt and once that happens it’s the same as a corporate run nation as my voice is meaningless.

    In short, and all rambling aside, we have a lot to learn about being moderate from successful European nations and even from former ‘lesser’ nations such as China.  Some of those changes will be hard, or even ‘un-American’, but I believe that America is not so arrogant as to forever cling to failed or inadequate policies.  This is not the 1950′s and we are not the best in the world at everything that we do.  Other countries have become more cohesive wholes by cooperating more and moving away from the sense of take as much as I can while doing as little as possible.  Yes, we still need some of that, that spirit of competition and to seek to be better than others, but we need to make it more about accomplishment and the goal of achieving more for society and less about personal greed and ambition.

    P.S.: For Schilling in particular, he was hypocritical to do this as his politics are to avoid ‘handouts’.  However, if he is actually holding himself accountable monetarily and not hiding behind the shield of corporate personhood I must respect him for that.  I might not agree with the man’s politics, but I can at least respect someone who works to correct his failings.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITP5OTWL7AAXJS5CDSVQEY54DQ Erich

    Comments like this really don’t help anyone, all they do is breed antagonism and that’s a huge part of the problem.

  • j…

    Schilling doesn’t make much sense in this interview; it would have been nice to have anyone from a business writing perspective on with D&C.  

    1.  He says they told the state they were going to default, then was surprised that he received a default letter from them when they actually defaulted.  Who tells a senior creditor that they will be in default, doesn’t get any written assurances that they’d not notice them for default, then is upset when they do?  Either Schilling is showing his nievity, or he is making this up (or likely fudging it).  

    2.  He says he gave the state a check and then said “don’t cash this.”  But, again, he doesn’t put it in writing.  Who does that? He says his lawyers participated in that conversation – but what lawyer would say to a client “yes, you are in default, but its OK to give a check to the lender and tell them orally not to cash it without providing anything written, or getting any written assurances.”  It just doesn’t make sense.

    3.  He was behind in payroll by at least 3 weeks.  Had he done that in MA, he’d be personally liable.

    4.  He says that the state wanted equity in a renegotiation over the terms of the (admittedly in default) loan.  He acts like that is a big deal.  Why wouldn’t he sell equity?

    5.  Why couldn’t he get any equity investors other than the state?

    6.  He says that no investors would be junior to the senior debt holder, especially when the senior  holder showed an unwillingness to be a partner.  First, you entered into an agreement with the state – of course junior lenders would be hesitant to be junior to an entity that isn’t a repeat player and is hard to predict.  Think of that before you enter into senior agreements with the state.  Second, junior lenders lend all the time – on less favorable terms, of course.  What law firm in Boston or Prov hasn’t done a series B deal?  Third, why not sell equity again?

    7.   Why would he put all his eggs in the basket of trying to get tax credits for a few million instead of just selling off some of the equity?

    None of it makes any sense.  Its all fictionalized rationalizations from a man who just doesn’t really know what he is doing.

    This isn’t about politics.  Its about hubris. But, its the man’s money – he can lose it anyway he wants.  I suppose this was a little less fun than how Dykstra lost his millions.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Lee/68134073 John Lee

    The core problem was that they hired an expensive staff, built out a expensive workplace, and paid out expensive salaries for a company that showed no true history of showing it could be a sustainable business. That’s why it failed right, because their business model wasn’t sustainable?

    They should hired younger (cheaper) talent, kept a team of 12-35, provided shares and performance compensation rather than bloated salaries (look, if all your employees have families, you gotta pay them at a much higher rate).

    They took one giant leap when they should have taken several smaller steps. But that takes time, hard work, and a long-term view/strategy.

  • http://twitter.com/Haggarded Haggarded

    What an absolute coward.  Chafee’s public statements had nothing to do with private capital “backing out” of any deal (if that even existed).  The state of Rhode Island had contractual obligations to his company, regardless of what Chafee said in public, and they had to honor those commitments and any private capital knows that.  If the private capital was really intent on investing in 38 Studios and thought it was a good investment, nothing Chafee said would change that.  Schilling is a coward looking for a scapegoat because he’s a failure and wants someone else to shovel some blame on.

    I’m glad Schilling lost whatever tens of millions he did.  That’s how the vaunted free market that Schilling holds dear actually works.  When you’re incompetent and reckless with your company, it dies.  Welcome to the free market and reality.

    And we all know that Schilling gets a huge pension from MLB that cannot be touched by any bankruptcy court and surely has many millions of dollwars stashed away to live comfortably for the rest of his life.  The fact that he’ll only have 3 or 4 vacation homes around the world instead of 10-15 shouldn’t make anyone cry about his future.  He’s a millionaire who blew a bunch of his own money because he thinks he’s smarter than he actually is.  Boo frickin hoo.

    Save your sympathy for the hundreds of his employees that he blindsided and who actually have to worry where their next meal is coming from.

  • Guest

     Obviously need to learn to read….from the article, copy and paste…

    On criticism that he, as a conservative, was hypocritical for taking money from the government:
    “I’m not sure where my stance and opinion in that we need a smaller
    government, I’m not sure how that correlates to this. … The program was
    there for local businesses to use. In a sense, we were a dream company
    to use them, because we were local. That money was literally coming out
    of the budget into our company, going right back into the local economy.
    Our employees live in Rhode Island, spend the money in Rhode Island.
    And 99 percent of the tax credit money was for payroll and development.
    So, all that money was spent locally, for rent and all the things that
    you do to keep a company running.”

  • Mike Rentas

    Love the casual implication that non-christians are the ones who “hate” him and that we’re inferior for doing so because he’s above all that :D Also the total lack of understanding about why people find it ironic that a “small government” conservative would take money from the government to fund his private company :D This guy’s hilarious :D

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/YU4NSVBRPUG32KIPB4CTSI6CLQ Michael Burkhead

    I disagree in part to what you say. Most of the staff were the heads and Sr level developers from the most successful company’s out there with several shipped triple A games. Collectively they made $11 Billion. That level of experience is viable for what they were building. There were a fair amount of Jr people on staff too. I personally know a handful of them. They were actually better than some people I’ve seen in the industry at 5-10 years though. Everyone was really smart there. His biggest flaw was hiring on staff too soon. They had several people on staff from day one that typically come in at the end of the production elsewhere. I know at least 2 people who have been on staff since the beginning that normally come in like 1-2 yrs before the game ships. 

  • filmex

    We got our fill of Shilling here in AZ because he was always parading his Aryan family around like they were the cast of The Sound of Music, and he couldn’t just talk baseball. He always had to share his political beliefs, which were always along the line of, “government never helps, it just screws things up”…”it was real men who built this country and they didn’t need the government’s help to do it”.

    If he truly believed that, why go into business with the government…because the guy’s a self-serving hypocrite. He got to play out his childhood fantasy of being a vid game king, and now a 1000 small creditors are left holding the bag. Just like the casino operators on Wall Street, it’s all someone else’s fault…this time the governor’s.

  • filmex

    What’s this 2004 quote he’s talking about?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/ITP5OTWL7AAXJS5CDSVQEY54DQ Erich

    It’s sadder still because the ‘self-made man’ of history is apocryphal at best.  Corporations and large scale business ventures have almost universally benefited from some sort of government aid or consideration since the foundation of our nation.  When someone claims it was ‘real men’ who built this country ask for examples.  There are plenty examples to the contrary, a country-wide railroad network built on government grants, free or reduced cost land to homesteaders, government funding of canal systems in favoritism of particular entrepreneurs, tariff acts to protect certain businesses from foreign goods, government investment in agricultural science and subsidizing of certain crops, Reconstruction subsidies, and the list continues.

    Anyone who thinks that before the New Deal there was no government aid is ignorant at best.  If they don’t agree with government aid, that’s one thing, but to claim the government never aided anyone in previous centuries and that every successful person was simply a hard worker is absurd.  That more than anything else bothers me to no end, the government has always played a role in the private sector.  Don’t like it, fine, but you can’t deny it as it happened.

  • Jason

    Another “conservative” bloviating blowhard. And, wow, he really looms large in his own legend. Hilarious how he pretends to be humble by pretending to take responsibility for his mistakes, yet forgets to mention, among many others, that he fired his employees by EMAIL! 

    What a self-aggrandizing douche. Also, he tries to make himself out as so brave for facing a lifestyle that will remain about a thousand times better than the average American. 

  • Anonymous

    Ah, la fin d’une semaine agitée est enfin arrivé! abercrombie paris  l’ai verrouiller les portes sur un bureau encombré encore, mon esprit vagabonde vers les choses qui demandent mon attention ce week-end. Il me tarde de tout échapper aux voix exigeants … échapper aux eaux du lac à travers la ville. Ce serait comme le ciel à plop moi sur le siège arrière d’un bateau, et de regarder la chute de mouettes et de plongée comme les vagues bercer me calme pour dormir. Yep, je peux presque entendre le bruit de leur éclaboussures lorsque le cliquetis de métal prévient moi sur le fait que j’ai laissé tomber mes clés.

  • Jan M

    wake up nitwit

  • Jan M

    va te faire foutre , grenouille

  • http://www.facebook.com/connolley Chuck Connolley

    Big deal. It sucks that the tax payers are on the hook, but at least Schilling borrowed 70 Mil with 30 already in. At least it wasn’t one of these “Green” companies that just get the money handed to them because they are politically connected…

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