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Bobby Valentine on Jose Iglesias decision: ‘It’s not kindergarten here’ 09.16.12 at 5:09 pm ET
By Alex Speier

Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine pinch-hit for Jose Iglesias in the middle of an at-bat. (AP)

The Red Sox are at the stage of the season where wins and losses border on meaningless. The most important consideration for the team this month is the opportunity to evaluate players to help define roles heading into 2013.

Among the most important players being evaluated while receiving an opportunity to acclimate to the competition in the big leagues is shortstop Jose Iglesias. The 22-year-old has endured considerable struggles since his late-August promotion to the big leagues, having gone 2-for-28 (.071) with a .295 OPS. Still, this is a time when such struggles have no immediate consequence. He can go 0-for-50, with the Red Sox losing every remaining game of the season, and the only impact would be a) the fact that Iglesias would have the opportunity to become more accustomed to what big league pitching looks like; b) it would become clearer that he is not ready for the big leagues; and c) his confidence might take a hit in the short-term.

With the Sox duking it out with the Blue Jays for last place in the AL East, this is precisely the sort of time when teams ride out the struggles of their young players. That made a seventh-inning decision by manager Bobby Valentine in Toronto unexpected.

Iglesias was at the plate with Pedro Ciriaco on first and two out in a 0-0 tie in the top of the seventh inning. He took the first two pitches (ball, called strike), fouled off a 1-1 offering and then laid off a sharp 1-2 curveball from reliever Brandon Lyon on which Ciriaco stole second to put himself into scoring position.

With the count then even at 2-2, Valentine elected to pull Iglesias in favor of pinch-hitter Daniel Nava. Pinch-hitting, of course, is a tough gig — the average American League pinch-hitter has a .203 average, .287 OBP, .334 slugging mark and .621 OPS, compared to a league average line of .255/.320/.411/.731 — and the task of coming in to pinch hit with two strikes already elevates the degree of difficulty even more.

Still, Valentine felt that as well as starter Jon Lester had pitched to that point — he’d given up just one hit through six shutout innings — the right move was to lift Iglesias when Ciriaco got into scoring position.

“Just trying to get a run for Jon, obviously. I told Daniel, if we steal second, you got it. Otherwise, I was all set to play defense in a nothing-nothing game. Once a guy gets to second base, I figured take a shot on a base hit,” Valentine told reporters. “It’s tough. Jon’s pitching such a good game is what it is. You get him a run there and he wins a ballgame. He’s battling, too. It’s not about one guy. It’s about a whole group of guys.”

Nava grounded out to second on the first pitch he saw, ending the inning. Asked if he was concerned that Iglesias’ confidence might suffer after being lifted in the middle of his plate appearance, Valentine suggested he was not concerned.

“I was pinch hit for with the bases loaded and a 3-2 count. It didn’t ruin my confidence. I think he’ll get over it. I talked to him. He said, ‘Whatever’s right for the team,’ ” Valentine told reporters. “I did let him hit. He went up there. I think there’s a good balance there. [Lester has] just pitched 100 pitches trying to win a baseball game. There will be plenty of time. I don’t think that’s a make or break situation. He’s gotten one hit so far. He’ll get the opportunity to get some hits. It’s not kindergarten here.

“If you don’t think it was a good decision, so what,” Valentine added. “I think it was the right thing to do trying to win a game for a guy who’s busting his butt out there.”

For his part, Iglesias acknowledged that it was novel for him to be replaced in the middle of the at-bat, but he did not object to what Valentine elected to do.

“It’s pretty unusual, but he made a decision. He tried to do what’s best for the team, and I respect that decision,” Iglesias told reporters. “I was ready to hit. I had some good ABs today, did the best I could do. He made a decision, and I respect him.”

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  • Jwol16

    Fire Valentine now.

  • askdd

     What he said. Embarrassing.

  • http://twitter.com/rogerpl Oskar White

    fire now- not little kids but really if pinch hitting was a great idea should have done it before he got 2 and2 count

  • Margerine

    Valentine has to go – NOW. Should have gone after comment the other day.,,,,weaskest Sox team ever. Can’t stand seeing him in dugout.

  • http://twitter.com/bdfun David Lyle

    This is the second time BV has dissed him. He did it in spring training and it was pretty brutal then also.
    Oh well just another senior moment for a man who should be working for ESPN. How the owners of the Sox can let this go on is beyond me and apparently most sports writers, fans and anyone that knows anything about baseball.

  • heisenberg

    Too bad Ben cant pinch-hit for valentine cause this aint kindergarden..He’s the worst manager in baseball.He’s been asleep the whole season an now in the last 20 days he wants to manage..He’s turned the sox into the biggest joke in baseball…He’s the weakest manager in baseball an ownership does’nt seem to care and thats going to trickle on down to the fans.The diehard fans.

  • Carl

    I agree with Jwo.  Get it done.  Red Sox “management” is a total disgrace to keep him still running this team.

    And look what a scumbag you turned out to be, Bobbie Five.

    Maybe if you hadn’t been pinch-hit for?

  • markfromlynn

    Actually Valentine was petitioning for Iglesias to be the starting SS in Spring training. It was Mike Aviles he screamed at ,which caused several of his teammates to jump to Aviles defense. Valentine was then told by management to tone it down.

    I will NEVER understand how the geniuses that run this team thought bringing a a three-time fired manager (Texas,Japan and NY Mets) would be a good thing!!

  • Pesky’s Ghost

    It is the weakest team ever. Unless you are watching something else.

  • Pesky’s Ghost

    You must work real close to Ben with this insider information. Tell us why they did not score a run and Lester fell apart. I am sure ben has given you the inside stuff.

    This team totally sucks. That is the real world..

  • Geetsolboy

    Iglesias can’t hit a beach ball but Valentine’s decision to pinch hit in he middle of the AB was stupid. I swear he guy is begging to be fired.

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheLeprakan Kevin Meehan

    Watching “Being:Liverpool”, the Fox Soccer Channel reality show…The Liverpool team is visiting Boston in the episode.  They go to Fenway and the soccer coach meets Valentine….”What a f-ing Douchebag”….”Who?” she asked…..”Valentine….he’s a f-ing douchebag!!”…”Why?” she asked….I told her about this move and his overall douchyness this season…..”You’re right…..He’s a douchebag!”…..I love my wife

  • Bobby Valentine’s bloated ego

    I did tell Jose that even though I pulled him, I would still share one of my delicious wrap sandwiches with him after the game.  I did invent the wrap you know.

  • Bob

    I can guarranty, BV is lying about getting pinch hit for with a 3-2 count. all he does is lie.

  • Bielawski82

    It’s all Bobby’s fault all the time in Boston.  No wonder no one wants to join Boston.  He said “I think it was the right thing to do trying to win a game for a guy who’s busting his butt out there.” and he’s right.  Iglesias may be one of the most overrated prospects in Sox history.  I’m routing for the kid, but for the foreseeable future he’s not ready.  That’s not Bobby’s fault, he game Iglesias more of a shot than any other manager has or probably would…

  • Frank

    What a farking arssclown! If this guy isn’t gone buy the time they put the tarp for the last time of the season, then these bozos deserve everything thy get

  • SK

     yes.. this joker should be let go NOW… he will destroy the team for next year…. please….you do not need a fancy brain to see what am embarrassment this idiot called Valentine is…. let us go no next year…with Lovullo, or pawsox manager Arnie[?], or Farrell or anyone, our RSX would at least be NOT a laughing stock…..

  • The Grande Kazoo

    …..Valentine hides his head where the sun don’t shine..Red Sox are gonna be sold off season..BV will be gone. John Henry will go ruin Liverpool, like they ain’t already.!

  • mike

    Flat out stupid…

  • Rockjw

    It is obvious that he wants to get fired and get paid by the Sox for next year while he works for ESPN.  That has been his plan ever since Cherington undermined him early in the season.  That explains all his off-the-wall comments and moves.  The front office should take careful notes of everything he is saying and doing and petition the league office to veto the remainder of his contract.  Why should anyone get paid for a second year when he purposely sabotaged his first year to get out of the job?

  • Tchuyoyo

    It’s official. BV really IS trying to get fired.

  • Maineiac

    So here’s the thing I think is going on with Valentine. I think the owners have already told him he’s not coming back next year, but he wants to join ESPN for the playoffs, so he’s trying to get canned now so he can double dip! 

    The guy can’t really be this stupid can he? “If we stole 2nd it’s yours” then why didn’t you send Ciriaco on the 1st or 2nd pitch you moron! Instead he sends him on the 4th, Great IDEA! Giving someone a 2-2 count to start with is just asking for an out. 

    So much for that “smartest man in the room” gimmick huh Bobby? 

  • Qtrback

    The kid should even be there folks, he couldn’t hit AAA pitchers and now he’s proved he can’t hit major league pitchers…..let the kid go, he can’t hit.  But let me guess, It’s Bobby’s fault, right?

  • Qtrback

    Shouldn’t *

  • Qtrback

    Let’s get one thing straight, ownership is the joke…

  • Doug

    He didn’t do the wrong thing, he was trying to win a game, if anything is made of this, it’s on the media, forgot it, it is just one decision in a marathon that is now history, just go on to the next game and forget the Negative Bias that the Media puts on anyone they don’t like.

  • Doug

    You are right, you’re also in a 2% minority, 98% of these negative minded so called fans are just yelling for blood, Negative Nation lives!  It wasnt’ a bad or good call, it was just a decision that didn’t have much of a chance, he thought it was worth a chance and made it, no big thing one way or the other.

  • josef10

    The big joke here Mutt and Merloni are you two cut throats who go from sport to sport knifing everybody you think has made a mistake.  Valentine is a damn good field manager.  He is capable of thinking outside of the box unlike you two.  Valentine is not making a mockery of anything in my opinion except to show that he wants to win from the first pitch to the last.  Merloni you are the joke.  Get back on the bus to Pawtucket.  It won’t be soon for me.  By the way whatever happened to your baseball bulk?

  • Eric B. & Rakim

    I didn’t even know you could pinch hit for a guy once he is announced as the hitter.  Never seen anyone pinch hit for after the at-bat starts.  Anyway, that is humiliating for the kid.  We need a pinch manager…..

  • Anonymous

    Hey Bobby, Your the weakest manager in the “HISTORY” of baseball.
    Why on earth would you pull Inglesias on a 2 ball – 2 strike count ? And then expect Nava to do something on that same 2-2 count. I’ve never seen that happen in all my life playing, coaching or watching baseball. It was lower than bush league, a minor league (7-10 yr. olds)coach would never do that, Shame on You Bobby V! What could you have possibly accomplished by making that kind of move and what do you think that does for a young player trying to help his team win?

  • josef10

    Ever notice anything Valentine says or does is an insult to his players?  Are you kidding? What would these guys do if they played for a pro hockey coach?  Hockey coaches can be merciless privately and publicly as it concerns their players.  Yeah, you can change a batter at any time as Nava for Iglesis, a move I would make, even for one swing.  This happened to Valentine himself.  How much sympathy did Valentine get?  Some of you make too much out of everything Valentine says or does like its all sacriligeous stuff he is promoting.  Get over it.  I hope Valentine is back next year.  I think he is knows what he is doing as a field manager.  He is here to run the Boston Red Sox field operations and not to be the  father of Boy’s Town.  Some of you need to grow up.

  • Rockjw

    I was a Booby V defender regarding the lack of freedom given him by whoever (suspected Cherington since Bobby was supposedly Larry’s guy).  However, a real manager calls players out in private, not through the media (like he did with Youkilis).  The Iglesias situation is so ridiculous it looks like merely a ploy to get canned.  If he knew that Iglesias was not the best option in that at bat, then he should have pinch hit for him before letting him face 4 pitches.  Simple as that.  I don’t believe he is that idiotic.  There has to be a reason (only one I can think of is he wants to get fired because quitting would forfeit his contract for next year, which is what the front office would love to see happen).  Those who think that Bobby was being a brilliant manager by pinch-hitting for a guy with 2 strikes is just blinded by Bobby V.    

  • josef10

    I don’t believe in all those silly conspiracy theories concerning Valentine.  I do not know him personally.  Who knows…maybe I would not like him close up…but from the on-field managerial aspects, I think he is damn good.  I like his pitching changes and the timing of them, for starters.  Unfortunately, Igesias is not ready for prime time, at the plate, at this time.  No one is saying that Valentine made a brillant move but me, being a fiesty guy,, if I had thought of it, I would have given Nava that chance, even if a slim one, with a runner now on 2nd base.  As for the Iglesias embarrassment, get over it.  If its allowed in the rule book, its legal.  Valentine had the courage to try this option out of the box.  Good for him!  Valentine will get paid if he is not here to manage next year, plain and simple.

  • Rockjw

    The pinch-hitting in the middle of a count is in the rule book to be used for any reason, but it is mostly used in the case of an injury… like when a batter fouls a ball off his foot, pulls a muscle swinging, etc.  If Valentine thought Nava was the better option in the 7th inning of a scoreless game (which he was) then the correct move would be to send Nava up to the plate before Iglesias even gets to the box.  Having your weak hitter accumulate 2 strikes before sending up the better hitter is idiotic (no defense for it will make sense).  When a batter has 2 strikes on him, unless he has an eagle eye, he must swing at anything close to being called a strike.  The pitcher has a huge advantage with 2 strikes.  It made no sense… nada.  If this were one of a few Bobby brain farts (and I still don’t think it is) then we could all just shrug our shoulders.  But it is sadly not the case.        

  • 7jimmy421

    IGLESEUS SUUUUXXXX!!!!!!!! 2 for 988 says “can’t hil MLB…” trade him

  • Gtravers

    “I was pinch hit for with a 3-2 count and it  didn’t ruin my confidence.” so based on that (which will be proven to be another false statement once it is researched) it should not ruin another player’s confidence because it  did not ruin yours. the lack of logic is this “manager” displays, once again is stunning. what a pitifully insecure man. just go the frick away.

  • Gtravers

     i think a lot of us out here need some examples of him being “a damn good field manager”. his past players are coming out on national radio against him ( Mitch Williams on DP show today was the latest). you may be speaking out yer arse i doo suspect. there is a reason this clown hasn’t been in MLB for 10 years and we are seeing it.

  • Gtravers

     you are an idiot. so nava sees him for 1 swing?!

  • kilon

    Bobby V has a touch of evil in his soul–thats assuming he has a soul. he also has some serious personality defects–best suggestion i’ve heard was to fire this slug in the middle of a game. wierdo.

  • Tito

    This guy can’t get a flesh eating disease fast enough…He is a liar and a clown.

  • Asmith5676

    Sign Valentine to an extension! He is doing a great job!

  • Kobra543

    good keep stacking on the CFL players

  • Titletown1

    How long before the rest of the league catches on and starts signing CFL players? This will be this year’s “big thing.” Once again, the rest of the NFL will be copying the Pats….

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.derrico.52 Joe D’Errico

    Can anyone say Practice Squad?

  • Bruinman86

     You never can tell with these guys. Doug Flutie, Warren Moon, Joe Theisman, Jeff Garcia Rocket Ismail, Mark Gastineau and Andre Rison all played in the CFL and had pretty good NFL careers.  So there is a chance he has some skills.

  • Tommy12

    They are basically eighth round draft picks. Just what this team needs, less talent.

  • Anarchial desire
  • San Diego Dreamer

    Welcome Home. I have a  good feeling about this one.

  • Gazzzmann

    A$$H*lle

  • Anarchial desire
  • Old news update

    Miami has a great pass rusher from Canadian league who gives the Pats fits.

  • letthenewseasonstarttalready

    a cfl guy that was never even considered by the nfl is gonna make the the patriots-even as a sub? I don’t think so.Agree with the other guy; practice squad!

  • Peter Griffin

     With the accuracy of Charlie Casserly.

  • Peter Griffin

     wrong as you always are.

  • Anonymous

    Pats prediction  free agents : wes welker WR, joshua cribbs WR, connor barwin OLB, Sean smith CB, Donte Stallworth WR, Benjamin watson TE, Austin Collie WR, Mike DeVito DT, Yeremiah Bell S, Antonio Johnson DT.  Jake Long G. Yes they will go cheap for free agents once again!!

    Draft. trade 1st pick to the Falcons for picks a 3rd round pick in 2014, picks 60 second round and 92 of the 3rd round.   2nd round  Jesse Williams DT, Alabama 6’4 320, trade pick 60 second round to the Saints for pick 75 of the 3rd round and 137 of the 5th round.with the 75th pick they draft  Da’Rick Rogers WR Tennessee Tech 6’3 215. 3rd round pick 91 Tyler Bray QB Tennessee 6’6 210 “value Pick”. trade pick 92 of the 3rd round to Tampa Bay for pick 109 of the 4th round and pick 171 of the 6th round. with pick 109 of the 4th round they select Joseph Fauria TE UCLA 6’8 252. Pick 137 Leon McFadden CB  San Diego State 5’10 180, yes another small corner!!!  5th round they select pick 159 5th round (compensation pick for the loss of Aqib Talib to the Red skins as a free agent) they select Logan Ryan Rutgers CB/S  6’0 190 BB loves this kid!!!   pick 191 of the 6th round (compensation for the loss of  Patrick Chung to the seahawks as a free agent) Hugh Thornton G Illinois 6’5 304. Pick 202 of the 7th round D.J Swearinger S South Carolina 6’0 210 ” falls for running a bad 40 yard dash at the combine”.” STEAL”"  pick 219 7th round Conner Vernon WR Duke 6’0 185, value pick!!!  yes folks they will be trading down once again  UGH!!  LOL.

    this might be more realistic with BB way of doing things.

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